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tiger is a tiger is a tiger. These are Dems. They have an overwhelming majority in Congress. They will pass a health care bill. The only question is what is in it. This infighting should not give Reps any hope or solace. We do know that there will be mandated health care forcing everyone and every business to join. We do know that they will establish the standards for what acceptable health insurance will include. They are setting the standards and profit margins, which will limit and eventually destroy private insurance in this country. Any bill is a bad bill regardless of whether a public option is in it or not. There will be a de facto public option regardless. Don't be fooled by the rhetoric or the good cop, bad cop routine.

There is no reason for rhetoric, espically if you plan to vote for the Bill in the end!

They hold all the power, yet, unlike the Senate, where many Senators don't come up for reelection next year, all of House members do.

There won't be a Bluedog who survives if they vote for this Bill.

On the Left, if they betray their own base, they might defeated by another Democrat in a primary.

I believe the hostility to this Bill is real and all we need is a 5 vote swing in the House to kill it.

My bet is that it doesn't even get out of committee.

The Senate version would never pass the House.

There is no reason for rhetoric, espically if you plan to vote for the Bill in the end!

The rhetoric is to placate their base. Listen to what Harkin had to say about this just being the "starter home" to the mansion.

There won't be a Bluedog who survives if they vote for this Bill.

Who really knows? And why would the Blue Dogs, many of whom voted for the stimulus package and cap and trade think that voting for this bill will hurt them any worse than voting against it? Sen Burris said the choice is between hanging together or separately. And the Dem leadership can threaten them by having them challenged in the primary, cutting off campaign money, and changing committee assignments. The Dems control the House 262-178.

I believe the hostility to this Bill is real and all we need is a 5 vote swing in the House to kill it. My bet is that it doesn't even get out of committee. The Senate version would never pass the House.

You are wrong on all counts. The Senate version will be the main one with a few tweaks. Pelosi can get through anything she wants. She will allow some Dems to vote no for their protection and cover. It is all orchestrated behind the scenes. They don't bring anything up for a vote unless they know the votes beforehand.

Obamacare must pass for the Dems. They have too much invested in its passage including the rest of Obama's agenda. Once the framework is passed, the bill can be changed and modified to suit the needs of the base. For the Dems, failure is not an option. With such overwhelming majorities in both Houses, they must pass as much as they can before the midterms. With Obama in the WH, none of this stuff can be repealed or pushed back. The Reps won't have veto proof majorities even under the most rosy scenarios.