Bombs not away: A'stan rules put troops at risk
[Thanks, MestaMachine.]
Posted on 12/22/2009 2:21:07 AM PST by Scanian
As part of his push to win over the people of Afghanistan, top US Gen. Stanley McChrystal in July abolished air attacks in all but the most dire of circumstances. But that ban is having all kinds of ugly and unexpected consequences.
US troops are paying a tough price for it. Consider the running firefight that Echo Company of the 2nd Batallion, 8th Marines faced in the town of Mian Poshteh in late August.
For 36 hours, the local Taliban did everything they could to kill the Marines of Echo Company. The militants planted improvised bombs. They fired mortar rounds at the adobe compound where the Marines were holed up. And when most of the Americans left to get fresh supplies, the Taliban attacked from three sides, while a sniper took aim at the troops' heads.
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
“McChrystal’s goal was to eliminate the innocent deaths that the Taliban have turned into propaganda victories. But his cautious rules of engagement are not only putting more US troops at risk by taking away America’s most potent advantage in this conflict, they’ve sidelined the tools and processes most likely to keep air strikes from killing innocents.”
A THOROUGHLY damning article. McChrystal need to be relieved of command!
Among the more idiotic ROE's I remember that Johnson, McNamara and other REMF's in the Pentagon insisted upon (which led to many needless casualties and numerous POW's) were:
Absolutely forbidden targets included: any MiG base designated as a sanctuary, a MiG fighter that did not have its landing gear retracted, any MiG fighter not showing hostile intent (no fighter jock ever figured that one out), and any SAM site not in operation. A SAM had to be fired at a U.S. plane before the plane could fire back, a dicey situation at best.
Additionally, the overly restrictive rules of engagement (in Rolling Thunder) put limits on where aircraft could fly, which targets they could attack, and how they may attack those targets, were a significant reason that American air commanders were unable to execute a successful campaign in Southeast Asia.
The restrictive ROEs in Vietnam were put in place by President Johnson to ensure the war did not escalate (Johnson feared Chinese and Soviet intervention) and the primary reason we were not allow to "Win" that war--which by blockading the Port of Haiphong; interdicting the rail supply routes from China and unleashing our vast, superior Air Power, could have brought that "engagement" to a successful conclusion in a matter of 6-12 months
It appears our Community-Organizer-in-Least has taken the previous ROE's and "Kicked them up Notches" never experienced before and in doing so, he is INSURING our inability to prevail as well as PERSONALLY being responsible for all the NEEDLESS casualties.
We must avoid harming innocent civilians at all cost - no matter how many American and allied soldiers die.
And yet the Taliban kills indiscriminately with mines in the roads, truck and car bombs in the markets and suicide bombers every where. It doesn’t seem to hurt their support.
No doubt McCrystal is getting his orders from the Taliban in Washington, Emperor Obama, Gates and the idiot Joint Chiefs. He is the fall guy to their lunatic policies that will only result in another Vietnam and many more dead Americans.
No. McChrystal is complicit in this. HIS ROE.
Democrats benefitted politically from a prolonged and ultimately lost “war” in Vietnam. A’stan in the big 0’s chance to do it again.
McChrystal is an idiot. He knows that those people use non-combatants as human shields.
TANKS,MM,,,
McChrystal is O’Bammy’s “yes man” ,,,
Nothing more,,,Nothing less,,,
~~~
“For 36 hours, the local Taliban did everything they could to kill the Marines of Echo Company. The militants planted improvised bombs. They fired mortar rounds at the adobe compound where the Marines were holed up. And when most of the Americans left to get fresh supplies, the Taliban attacked from three sides, while a sniper took aim at the troops’ heads.”
~~~
This tells us that McChrystal and the TURDS below him care
more for/about the lives of moozzi than the lives of Marines!!!
Ain’t no way around it,,,
Not even ONE would just say “SKROOO YOU” and order an
airstrike to save those guys on the ground!!!
For those that don’t know motar fire can be “walked in”
on those Marines causing them to move so they can be SHOT!
If they stay where they are mortar fire will hit them,,,
If they move they are hit by small arms,,,
SHIIT like this will cause the Troops to Quit!...
This is not the first article like this I've read and each time I do it DISGUSTS me. These are McChrystal's ROE's and that's why BO hand picked him.
How about we bring the troops home...that'll reduce collateral damage and keep our guys safer. Radical idea? No more radical than being in a war and NOT fighting to win. Then I think about what would happen if we were attacked again, here and I want to run screaming from the room.
As our Marine son said to me not long ago, "You wanted to be POTUS...make a decision...either let them fight to win or bring them home, you SOB."
May God bless and protect our troops. I mean that with every fiber of my being.
Our Troops to be slaughtered under the current ROEs. SHAME on McChrystal and anyone else involved in crafting the current Rules of Engagement. Our Troops deserve leadership that puts concern for THEM first!
What do you expect from a CIC that puts concern for the enemy over that for the troops under him?!
Spot on!
(And please thank your son for his service to our nation.)
This is letter says it all (if you haven’t already seen it.)
“It was the last way John Bernard would have wanted his voice to gain prominence in the national debate over the war in Afghanistan. The retired Marine had been writing to lawmakers for weeks complaining of the new rules of engagement he believed put U.S. troops at unacceptable risk in the insurgency-wracked country. He got little response.
Then Bernard’s only son, 21-year-old Lance Cpl. Joshua Bernard — a Marine like his dad — was killed in an insurgent ambush in Afghanistan’s volatile Helmand province, the latest victim of a surge in U.S. combat deaths.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2361697/posts
__________________________________________________________
Congressman Mike Michaud 7/09/2009 08:01 1724 Longworth HOBWashington, DC 20515-1902
Dear Sir;
I am writing to you today as an American citizen, 26 year veteran of the United States Marine Corps, committed Christian, Husband, Father of two and a businessman. I am also writing to you as the Father of a Marine who is, as all of his brothers in arms are, in harms way. That by itself is not a cause for concern for me because as a Warrior I understand two things:(1) it is the very nature of the calling to which we have been called that we will be thrust into dangerous, even life threatening situations to fight the enemies of our country and (2) that there could not possibly be a safer place to be than in the company of fellow Marines. In any case, that is the nature of the business and those who serve in this capacity have long since dealt with the realities of life in uniform.
There are, however, certain expectations, an unspoken trust within the ranks of those of us who serve and have served in this capacity. One of those is that we have a belief that as Americans, our leadership will not frivolously spend our blood on unworthy pursuit. To those of us who serve, let me be very clear to those of you who hold our lives in your hands; this means that the reason we may die can ultimately be defined as protecting homeland, family and fellow American lives (spelled US citizens). We also assume we will not be used as pawns in some personal vendetta or worse some career building scheme; that we will not be asked to spill our blood in a foreign land to defend the indefensible. We expect we will be able to do that for which we were trained; export violence with ferocity and drive our enemies to their knees with the ultimate goal of ending the conflict by forcing them to do our will. Such are the dreams and aspirations of the Warrior. Men like this seek to serve side by side with like-minded men prepared to meet their destiny on the field of battle; living a life of honor while testing personal courage in the forge of combat. Our nations Warriors have no other expectations, no visions of grandeur, no careers to bolster, no kingdoms to lord over, no sovereignty to subvert. These men just seek to serve their country.
Now that you have ever so basic an understanding of the intrinsic nature of the Warrior; I hope to encourage you to show them at least the dignity of thoughtful and painstaking decision-making when considering when and where to thrust them into the fires of hell. My demand is that you emphatically understand that this decision will have eternal consequences for the men involved and their families. I also expect this decision to be for the simple reason of defense of country and countrymen (again spelled United States Citizens).
If any part of you still understands that you were sent to Washington DC for the sole purpose of defending these shores and to defend the ‘life, liberty and pursuit of happiness’ of the citizens of this nation; and if you still believe you are first a servant of all, then you yet may possess the ability to understand the immorality of what I am about to share with you and the necessity to change this policy NOW.
President Obama has seen fit to replace the sitting ISAF commander with a General McChrystal (see Bio at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_A._McChrystal). Suffice it to say that Gen McChrystal’s understanding of the Warrior ethos is somewhat askew from the mainstream. Also let us cut to the chase and identify him more as a political mouthpiece than a field commander. Add to this the dubious addition of General James L. Jones (see bio at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_L._Jones), who unlike McChrystal has actual combat experience but still shares the same ultimate goals and one world vision as both McChrystal and Obama. What you have here is an unholy trinity injecting their shared philosophy of ‘spare the civilians at all cost’ – even though those civilians are not US citizens and are in fact complicit in their own misfortune. The new ROE presented by McChrystal and under which operation Khanjar was mounted is nothing less than disgraceful, immoral and fatal for our Marines, Sailors and Soldiers on the ground. The Marines and Soldiers that are ‘holding’ territories of dubious worth like Now Zad and Golestan without reinforcement, denial of fire-support and refusal to allow them to hunt and kill the very enemy we are there to confront are nothing more than sitting ducks. Denying them even the ability to fight, which is their only purpose for existing, to defend themselves in a foreign land that sees them first as agents of the devil is detestable to the secular world and immoral to the rest of us. And for those of us with ‘vested interests’ thrust into that foreign land; it angers us. The links I have provided will give you some indication of the insanity of the current situation and the suicidal position this administration has placed these Warriors in. I admonish this administration and all those currently in public office whom we have entrusted with our security, well-being and the very lives and well-being of the best of us, our Warriors to start acting like you actually care or even understand the consequences of ludicrous decisions like this one. I then hold you responsible to actively seek to change this immoral policy to one that allows our Warriors the opportunity to do what they were trained to do; destroy our enemies and protect our citizenry.
http://www.militarytimes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1578049
http://www.captainsjournal.com/2009/07/07/no-excuse-marines-losing-legs-in-now-zad/
http://www.captainsjournal.com/2009/07/03/afghanistan-the-wtf-war/
To those who would suggest that COIN (counter insurgency) is complicated I say hog-wash. This has become the mantra of the one-world ideologues. This has become complicated because leadership has lost its way. It is not the responsibility of the leaders (servants) of this country to re-build a country that has not been destroyed by us nor does the leadership of this country have any intrinsic right to spill the blood of this country’s finest for this cause. I’ll lay it out for you; bad guys entered this country, unannounced and unwelcome and killed Americans on American soil. Bad guys continue to harass and threaten to kill Americans here at home and abroad. Bad guys continue to train in foreign lands and continue to plan to carry out these plans against sovereign American citizens. They have no rights or guarantee of protection under the Constitution of the United States because they are not United States citizens. They are not protected by the Geneva Convention because they don’t fight under any Nation’s Flag. We however, have the right – and responsibility, with historical and Biblical precedent to export violence to crush these Bad guys, wherever they may live and in whatever lair they may hide – relentlessly! If the civilian populations in those areas lack the intestinal fortitude to expel them from their midst or they quietly support them or they actively support them; they are not innocent and may well suffer ill consequences for their cowardice and their complicities.
For those of us who have served in uniform and for those of us who have family forced to serve under these immoral conditions the time to quietly observe and pray has ended. There is a new activist emerging; not like the cannabis induced flailing of the sixties and seventies but one with the discipline, training and tenacity of a Warrior. Those of us who have a history in this Warrior culture and a vested interest on the battlefield will be a lot more vocal from this point on. Those in this culture who do not yet know about this immoral ROE change will soon all know as well as the families of those who are imperiled by it. Those who have actively supported this policy of immorality or are not engaged enough to know of it; they will be re-introduced to your constituencies for their failings. Public service is precisely what it portends to be; service. If there are those among your number who have failed to remember that I can promise you we will make that known within our spheres of influence.
This letter is making its way through the halls of every national news agency as well as the local ones in Maine, as you read this. I have contacted your office by phone, e-mail and now letter to give you a chance to get out in front of it. Consider this a wake-up call.
John J. Bernard 1stSgt USMC ret
http://letthemfight.blogspot.com/
The ROE’s are demonstrative of the fact that there is a liberal rot which has crept into our military culture, if continued, it will lead to the complete impotence of the American Armed Forces in the Theatre. The current rules will only lead to more KIA. Nothing good will come from them. You can’t micromanage a firefight and as the case of the Marines killed in the Kunar province in August demonstrates, micromanaging is deadly to our troops. It is impossible to prevent civilian casualties during a time of war. We will only lose more of our troops attempting to do so and the enemy knows the Achilles heal by which to exploit and use to their advantage.
“Rules of engagement killing U.S. soldiers”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2406897/posts
“THE RULES MURDERING OUR TROOPS”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2347085/posts
“U.S. TROOPS BATTLE BOTH TALIBAN AND THEIR OWN RULES”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2387602/posts
“New Obama Military Rules of Engagement:, Don’t shoot back”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2384383/posts
“RULES OF ENGAGEMENT REVISITED’
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2346439/posts
“OBAMA’S RULES OF ENGAGEMENT IN AFGHANISTAN COSTING OUR TROOPS LIVES”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2335891/posts
____________________________________________________________
http://www.nato.int/isaf/docu/official_texts/Tactical_Directive_090706.pdf
“...I recognize that the carefully controlled and disciplined employment of force entails risks to our troops...”
“...The Taliban cannot militarily defeat us - but we can defeat ourselves...”
This is all that comes to my mind when I read that:
“We are pinned down. We are running low on ammo. We have no air. We’ve lost today,” Marine Maj. Kevin Williams, 37, said through his translator to his Afghan counterpart, responding to the latter’s repeated demands for helicopters.
“’We’re pinned down:’ 4 U.S. Marines die in Afghan ambush”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2335142/posts
____________________________________________________________
“Obama orders Miranda rights in Afghanistan”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2388364/posts
“Reading Miranda Rights to Terrorists Is ‘Crazy’ and ‘Stupid,’ Say GOP Congressmen”
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=49738
“Miranda rights for terrorists: Next, toothbrushes and teddy bears!”
11-11-09
“NUMBER OF WOUNDED TROOPS IN AFGHANISTAN INCREASING”
“WASHINGTON – Far from winding down, the numbers of U.S. soldiers coming home wounded have continued to swell. The problem is especially acute among those fighting in Afghanistan, where nearly four times as many troops were injured in October as a year ago.
Amputations, burns, brain injuries and shrapnel wounds proliferate in Afghanistan, due mostly to increasingly potent improvised bombs targeting U.S. forces. Snipers’ bullets and mortar rounds also are to blame...”
BUMP!
Bombs not away: A'stan rules put troops at risk
[Thanks, MestaMachine.]
Barry O. “Look McCrystal, I know you want to do your best and I want you to do your best. Thing is...Those are my cousins and I have to level the playing/killing field”
McCrystal “Huh?!”
Barry O. “Do your best”
Perfect...
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