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To: ottbmare

The real story -based upon my research about 15 yrs. ago- is this: While Pius XII worked behind the scenes to rescue Jews, he did nothing publicly. He was afraid any public proclamations would bring more suffering to Catholics, clergy and the Jews.

Again, based on my research, I conclude that he could have done more. He should have spoken out. Not that it would have saved more Jews (I agree with his thinking, the Nazis would probably have stepped up their pograms),but his voice, as the biggest clergy, on an equal footing with Churchill and Roosevelt, would have caused more investigation, more rescues, and more seriously taken world attention.

As for making him and JP saints, I don’t think we need to go that far. Both of these popes turned blind eyes to very important social trends. On the other hand, at least they weren’t married and/or have children! They could have been worse. I think we have enough saints now, and I think the saints should come from the “people” class. I mean, I’m still getting over the purge of Saints back in the 1980’s (?)!


15 posted on 12/19/2009 9:30:14 AM PST by blu (Graffiti the world, I've seen the writing on the wall...)
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To: blu

Your conclusion that he could have done more is supported by hindsight and probably knowledge that he didn’t have. He did the best he could since he was weighing unknown risk and also concerns we’re not privy to.

Re: canonization - since there’s a set protocol, I doubt you need to worry about ‘going that far’, whatever that means.


22 posted on 12/19/2009 10:50:36 AM PST by Patriotic1 (Dic mihi solum facta, domina - Just the facts, ma'am)
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To: blu

You wrote:

“I think we have enough saints now,...”

I hope you mean ‘canonized saints’? Even then you’re comment makes no sense. Let’s say we have 10,000 more canonized saints by the end of 2010. How does that effect you?

“...and I think the saints should come from the “people” class.”

1) Pius XII and John Paul II were definitely popes of the people.

2) If you know of a layperson who should be canonized then go to your bishop and get the formal process going. The reason why clergy are often more easily canonized as saints is that they were known by many, many people while most lay people later canonized were not so well known.


24 posted on 12/19/2009 11:06:44 AM PST by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: blu

That’s your opinion. Unfortunately, when the bishops did speak out against Hitler, the chief result was that more people were sent to the death camps.

Roosevelt, unfortunately, had an antisemitic streak. The most notorious instance has been novelized in Katherine Anne Porter’s Ship of Fools, when Roosevelt refused to allow Jewish refugees fleeing Hitler into the U.S.

Roosevelt and Churchill were perfectly well aware of the death camps, but they had other priorities. And both of them tended to be anti-Catholic as well as anti-semitic in any case. Churchill was only with difficulty prevented from bombing the Vatican during the Italian campaign.


26 posted on 12/19/2009 11:48:18 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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