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Our Flip-Flopping Wars - Iraq was never lost and Afghanistan was never quite the easy good war.
National Review Online ^
| December 17, 2009
| Victor Davis Hanson
Posted on 12/17/2009 2:13:30 PM PST by neverdem
December 17, 2009, 0:00 a.m.
Our Flip-Flopping Wars Iraq was never lost and Afghanistan was never quite the easy good war.
By Victor Davis Hanson
We don’t hear all that much about Iraq these days, do we?
The war at one point almost tore apart this country. Public anger sent George W. Bush’s approval ratings plummeting. And the outrage over our losses helped elect vocal anti–Iraq War candidate Barack Obama.
But Iraq is hardly in the news anymore. That seems odd, given there are still 120,000 American troops stationed there.
So, why the silence?
In short, Americans are not dying in Iraq as they were from 2006 to 2008. Twice as many Americans have died in Afghanistan this year as in Iraq. As of this writing, in December, there have been four coalition fatalities. That’s about one-tenth of the number of people murdered per month in Chicago in 2008.
Perceptions of the war in Iraq have also changed in unforeseen ways.
“No blood for oil,” for example, was once a common anti-war cry. But Iraq’s auctioning of its oil leases has gone mostly to Europeans, Russians, and Chinese — not Americans.
The U.S., it turned out, did not go to Iraq to steal its natural resources. Apparently, we instead ensured a fair auction by a constitutional government that preferred non-American companies to pump its oil. In the end, we were more idealistic — or naïve — than conspiratorial.
Then there is Iran, which, many argued, was supposed to have been empowered after we removed its nemesis, Saddam Hussein. And, indeed, it sure looked that way when Iranian agents were stirring up violence in Iraq.
Yet this year, a million Iranians went out in the streets to demand free and fair elections of the sort they hear about constantly across their border. In other words, perhaps the democratic experiment in Iraq — where Shiite Muslims enjoy freedom — will prove destabilizing in the long term to the Iranian theocracy.
Here at home, the portrayal of the two wars we’re engaged in is just as topsy-turvy. When fewer than 100 Americans were dying each year in Afghanistan, and the Taliban were in hiding, the Afghan conflict was proclaimed a necessary, good war — in contrast to the optional, costly, and apparently failed effort in Iraq.
But in 2009, George Bush’s bad war quieted down. And the good war in Afghanistan, now overseen by Barack Obama, heated up.
In turn, the politics flipped as well.
Once upon a time, presidential candidate Barack Obama argued that combat troops should leave Iraq by March 2008, and more soldiers should be sent to Afghanistan. That seemed popular at the time, since most then thought Iraq was hopeless.
But under the present reversed conditions, President Obama apparently has followed the Bush-Petraeus plan of incremental withdrawal from Iraq. And, with Afghanistan, he waited months before granting the requests of his generals for more troops — while insisting on a deadline to start bringing them back home.
As a result, the left-wing loyalists who helped elect Obama on his anti-war credentials are now furious at the Nobel Peace Laureate for sending any additional troops to Afghanistan. And his biggest supporters, ironically, are his usual right-wing opponents, who now applaud him for listening to his generals.
The media coverage of Afghanistan and Iraq has been just as schizophrenic. So far, the rising violence in Afghanistan is not quite front-page news, as Iraq once was. Most in the media seem reluctant to tar Obama with creating a messy quagmire — at least not yet — in the way the reporting from Iraq helped bring down George Bush.
Many in the media (not to mention Congress) once were delighted that retired high-ranking officers — in a “revolt of the generals” moment — came forward to criticize Bush and our conduct in Iraq.
Now, though, we hear all kinds of concern that Gen. Stanley McChrystal once publicly expressed impatience with the decision-making of the Obama administration. Whether it is good or bad for officers to wade into politics, or whether surges are doomed or logical, apparently depends on who is in the White House.
What are we to make of all these flip-flops?
Iraq was never lost and Afghanistan was never quite the easy good war. Those in the media too often pile on and follow the polls rather than offer independent analysis. Campaign rhetoric and politics are one thing — the responsibility of governance is quite another.
And when wars break out, no one ever quite knows how things will finally end up.
— Victor Davis Hanson is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and a recipient of the 2007 National Humanities Medal. © 2009 Tribune Media Services, Inc.
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TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; iraq; vdh; victordavishanson
1
posted on
12/17/2009 2:13:30 PM PST
by
neverdem
To: Tolik
2
posted on
12/17/2009 2:15:32 PM PST
by
neverdem
(Xin loi minh oi)
To: neverdem
Stan is no where near in the dire straights of which a premise is trying to be set...for reasons outside of the situation in Stan itself......
Our current Commander there, Gen. McChrystal is a top notch warrior who will continue to make sure we succeed there if given the leeway and resources he needs...
To: neverdem
Stan is no where near in the dire straights of which a premise is trying to be set...for reasons outside of the situation in Stan itself......
Our current Commander there, Gen. McChrystal is a top notch warrior who will continue to make sure we succeed there if given the leeway and resources he needs...
To: neverdem
Stan is no where near in the dire straights of which a premise is trying to be set...for reasons outside of the situation in Stan itself......
Our current Commander there, Gen. McChrystal is a top notch warrior who will continue to make sure we succeed there if given the leeway and resources he needs...
To: neverdem
Where are the mournful daily casualty reports on MSNBC and CNN?
Oh, wait. There’s a Democrat in the White House. Never mind.
6
posted on
12/17/2009 2:29:05 PM PST
by
Philo1962
(Iraq is terrorist flypaper. They go there to die.)
To: neverdem
But Iraqs auctioning of its oil leases has gone mostly to Europeans, Russians, and Chinese not Americans.
Thank you Iraq.
7
posted on
12/17/2009 3:08:05 PM PST
by
TomasUSMC
( FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM)
To: neverdem
And his biggest supporters, ironically, are his usual right-wing opponents, who now applaud him for listening to his generals. Well, it's not quite as simple as that. I believe that most Freepers, and probably most patriots, are conflicted on Obama's handling of the Afghan war. Yes, we support it. But we do NOT support the deadly rules of engagement, or the constant court martialing of our troops for doing their jobs, or the public announcement of a deadline for withdrawal, or what seems to be Obama's determination to lose this war, injure and kill our troops, and refuse to do what needs to be done to achieve any kind of victory.
Most of us aren't quite ready to say that we should leave. But few of us support Obama's determination to sacrifice our troops when he seemingly has no intention of winning. That is only justifiable if it enables us to hold on until we get a decent Commander in Chief back into the White House.
8
posted on
12/17/2009 3:18:03 PM PST
by
Cicero
(Marcus Tullius)
To: SevenMinusOne
Gen. McChrystal is a top notch warrior
///////
I’d say he’s a worthless chump. Same kind of Generals that in Vietnam killed off the troops so they could keep their career on track.
McChrystal has handcuffed our troops in the face of enemy fire, an enemy with no rules. He’s got his obama knee pads on 24/7.
Combat rules our own General McKook enforces, thus killing his own troops
The Times compiled an informal list of the new rules from interviews with U.S. forces. Among them:
No night or surprise searches.
Villagers have to be warned prior to searches.
ANA or ANP must accompany U.S. units on searches.
U.S. soldiers may not fire at the enemy unless the enemy is preparing to fire
U.S. forces cannot engage the enemy if civilians are present.
Only women can search women.
Troops can fire at an insurgent if they catch him placing an IED but not if insurgents are walking away from an area where explosives have been laid.
Get obambi and his generals out of the White House FIRST,
.... then put our troops in combat.
General McChrystal TACTICAL DIRECTIVE -6 JULY 09:
I EXPECT LEADERS AT ALL LEVELS TO SCRUTINIZE AND LIMIT THE USE OF FORCE LIKE CLOSE AIR SUPPORT AGAINST RESIDENTIAL COMPOUNDS AND OTHER LOCATIONS LIKELY TO PRODUCE CIVILIAN CASUALTIES IN ACCORDANCE WITH THIS GUIDANCE....THE USE OF AIR TO GROUND MUNITIONS AND INDIRECT FIRES AGAINST RESIDENTIAL COMPOUNDS IS ONLY AUTHORIZED UNDER VERY LIMITED AND PRESCRIBED CONDITIONS......
....ANY ENTRY INTO AN AFGHAN HOUSE SHOULD ALWAYS BE ACCOMPLISHED BY AFGHAN NATIONAL SECURITY FORCES, WITH THE SUPPORT OF LOCAL AUTHORITIES AND ACCOUNT FOR THE UNIQUE CULTURAL SENSITIVITIES TOWARD LOCAL WOMEN.
..NO ISAF FORCES WILL ENTER OR FIRE UPON,OR FIRE INTO A MOSQUE OR ANY RELIGIOUS OR HISTORICAL SITE EXCEPT IN SELF-DEFENSE. ALL SEARCHES AND ENTRIES FOR ANY OTHER REASON WILL BE CONDUCTED BY ANSF. I EXPECT LEADERS AT ALL LEVELS TO SCRUTINIZE AND LIMIT THE USE OF FORCE LIKE CLOSE AIR SUPPORT AGAINST RESIDENTIAL COMPOUNDS AND OTHER LOCATIONS LIKELY TO PRODUCE CIVILIAN CASUALTIES IN ACCORDANCE WITH THIS GUIDANCE....THE USE OF AIR TO GROUND MUNITIONS AND INDIRECT FIRES AGAINST RESIDENTIAL COMPOUNDS IS ONLY AUTHORIZED UNDER VERY LIMITED AND PRESCRIBED CONDITIONS......
....ANY ENTRY INTO AN AFGHAN HOUSE SHOULD ALWAYS BE ACCOMPLISHED BY AFGHAN NATIONAL SECURITY FORCES, WITH THE SUPPORT OF LOCAL AUTHORITIES AND ACCOUNT FOR THE UNIQUE CULTURAL SENSITIVITIES TOWARD LOCAL WOMEN.
..NO ISAF FORCES WILL ENTER OR FIRE UPON,OR FIRE INTO A MOSQUE OR ANY RELIGIOUS OR HISTORICAL SITE EXCEPT IN SELF-DEFENSE. ALL SEARCHES AND ENTRIES FOR ANY OTHER REASON WILL BE CONDUCTED BY ANSF.
Excerpts from General McChrystal TACTICAL DIRECTIVE -6 JULY 09.
More than 1,000 American troops have been wounded in battle over the past three months in Afghanistan, accounting for one-fourth of those injured in combat since the U.S.-led invasion in 2001. Thank you President obambi and Gen. McCoocoo.
Excerpts from General McChrystal TACTICAL DIRECTIVE -6 JULY 09.
We had Generals like this one in Nam also.
9
posted on
12/17/2009 3:36:08 PM PST
by
TomasUSMC
( FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM)
To: TomasUSMC
The Times compiled an informal list of the new rules from interviews with U.S. forces. Among them: No night or surprise searches. Villagers have to be warned prior to searches. ANA or ANP must accompany U.S. units on searches. U.S. soldiers may not fire at the enemy unless the enemy is preparing to fire U.S. forces cannot engage the enemy if civilians are present. Only women can search women. Troops can fire at an insurgent if they catch him placing an IED but not if insurgents are walking away from an area where explosives have been laid. Utter BS! Our OPTEMPO in Stan for DA Ops (which blow basically all the above assertions out of the water) have been increasing with each week since Gen. McChrystal has been put in charge.
Understand this, Gen. McChrystal has commanded some of our tip of the spear SOCOM/CENTCOM TFs. Turning real shooters loose, kicking in doors 24/7.
To: SevenMinusOne
I’m not impressed
http://www.icasualties.org/OEF/index.aspx
In June before Gen McC. put his handcuffing of our troops orders in effect there were 38kia. The very next month, with his rules of engagement, our KIA went up 100 percent! There were 76, the next month again up 100 percent from June with 77 KIA. Those are fact.
Mind you that this 30000 surge is the second one. Lets not forget the first 15000.
Time will tell, although its not much time.
And when that time is gone the more telling question is who will start ripping Afghanistan apart then : China, Russia, Iran Pakistan or all of the above.
11
posted on
12/17/2009 4:40:00 PM PST
by
TomasUSMC
( FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM)
To: AdmSmith; Berosus; bigheadfred; Convert from ECUSA; dervish; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Fred Nerks; ...
Americans are not dying in Iraq as they were from 2006 to 2008. Twice as many Americans have died in Afghanistan this year as in Iraq. As of this writing, in December, there have been four coalition fatalities. That's about one-tenth of the number of people murdered per month in Chicago in 2008.
Thanks neverdem.
12
posted on
12/17/2009 8:02:41 PM PST
by
SunkenCiv
(My Sunday Feeling is that Nothing is easy. Goes for the rest of the week too.)
To: SevenMinusOne
The problem is: McChrystal asked for 65K troops, and said that 40K was the BAREST MINIMUM he could be reasonably expected to win with, and BHO (ptui) gave him 3/4 of his barest minimum, and added the 18 month deadline.
IOW, yet another demonrat has pi**ed on America’s warriors and made them possibly LOSE a war.
Why do you guys keep electing these traitors?
13
posted on
12/17/2009 10:06:48 PM PST
by
Don W
(I keep some people's numbers in my phone so I know not to answer when they call)
To: neverdem; Lando Lincoln; SJackson; dennisw; kellynla; monkeyshine; Alouette; nopardons; ...
Ping ! |
Let me know if you want in or out. |
Links:
14
posted on
12/21/2009 6:12:54 AM PST
by
Tolik
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