Deniergate: Turning the tables on climate sceptics ( Really?)

New Scientist ^ | 15:54 14 December 2009 | Michael Marshall and Michael Le Page

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

"Climategate" has put scientists on trial in the court of public opinion. If you believe climate sceptics, a huge body of evidence involving the work of tens of thousands of scientists over more than a century should be thrown out on the basis of the alleged misconduct of a handful of researchers, even though nothing in the hacked emails has been shown to undermine any of the scientific conclusions.

If we are going to judge the truth of claims on the behaviour of those making them, it seems only fair to look at the behaviour of a few of those questioning the scientific consensus. There are many similar examples we did not include. We leave readers to draw their own conclusions about who to trust.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks Ernest.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Related thread:

New Climategate SHOCKER: Russians Reveal How CPU "Cooked The Books"

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

JoNva website

***********************************

Should be JoNova website

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Direct link:

http://joannenova.com.au/

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

So much good stuff on the JoNova website:

Carbon rises 800 years after temperatures

***************************EXCERPT*****************************

Ice cores reveal that CO2 levels rise and fall hundreds of years after temperatures change

In 1985, ice cores extracted from Greenland revealed temperatures and CO2 levels going back 150,000 years. Temperature and CO2 seemed locked together. It was a turning point—the “greenhouse effect” captured attention. But, in 1999 it became clear that carbon dioxide rose and fell after temperatures did. By 2003, we had better data showing the lag was 800 ± 200 years. CO2 was in the back seat.

AGW replies: There is roughly an 800-year lag. But even if CO2 doesn’t start the warming trend, it amplifies it.

Skeptics say: If CO2 was a major driver, temperatures would rise indefinitely in a runaway greenhouse effect. This hasn’t happened in 500 million years, so either a mystery factor stops the runaway greenhouse effect, or CO2 is a minor force, and the models are missing the dominant driver.

Amplification is speculation. It’s a theory with no evidence that it matters in the real world.

Conclusion:
1. Ice cores don’t prove what caused past warming or cooling. The simplest explanation is that when temperatures rise, more carbon dioxide enters the atmosphere (because as oceans warm they release more CO2).
2. Something else is causing the warming.

Al Gore’s movie was made in 2005. His words about the ice cores were, “it’s complicated.” The lag calls everything about cause and effect into question. There is no way any honest investigation could ignore something so central.

---

Source: Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center http://cdiac.ornl.gov (See references at the bottom also).
A complete set of expanded full size graphs and print quality images is available from my Vostok Page.

---

Extra notes, references, and discussion about this page

The media blackout on “the lag” continues

The lag in the ice cores is old news to skeptics, but most people in the public still have no idea. This is page 5 of the HTML version of The Skeptics Handbook (the first booklet). I should have posted it long ago. The graph series and data are compelling. It’s one of the most basic features of climate science evidence, and yet it is so misused. Even tonight, I did a radio interview for NewstalkZB, New Zealand, and the pro-climate scare spokesman still referred to both the fraudulent Hockey Stick Graph and the Vostok Ice Cores as if they helped his case.

Between 1999 and 2003 a series of peer reviewed papers in the highest journals came out showing that carbon rises hundreds of years after temperature, and not before. What amazes me is that fully six years after Caillon et al in 2003 published their definitive paper, people still think the ice cores are evidence supporting the scare campaign.  “The climate is the most important problem we face,” yet somehow not a single government department, popular science magazine or education department thought it was worth doing a close up of the graph and explaining to the public that there was a definitive, uncontested long lag,  and that carbon always followed temperature.

[sergeantdave]

CO²mmunists

I like it!

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

We have so much flying around here and elsewhere...thought this thread could be useful:

Fact-based climate debate

It is from a new site to me,,...but scanned it quickly and seems pretty good,.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Thanks...I know nothing about SIL...:

About SIL

***********************EXCERPT******************

We study biogeochemical processes that control environmental change on human timescales using stable isotopes.

We develop new, automated techniques for measuring environmental stable isotopes.

We provide analytical services to scientists and institutions around the world.

[grey_whiskers]

See also Fables of the Reconstruction.

Cheers!

[potlatch]

Thanks Ernest, that’s a funny one. Just imagine making all those snowmen!

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Guess I need to get some info from my son...Raytheon is readying a new Satellite for NOAO...Goddard.. that has all kinds of sensors on it.

I think it goes under the name of Project Glory...hmm...my memory is rather cloudy at the moment....

Found this:

Goddard Space Flight Center, The Glory Mission"

[Robert A Cook PE]

Good links!

See also www.co2science.org for how much CO2 is INCREASING plant growth (food, fuel, fodder, farms, feedstock) by 12% to 27%.

Everyday.

[Right Wing Assault]

Who do I trust? Hmmm, let’s see. Maybe I’ll read this article first:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100020126/climategate-goes-serial-now-the-russians-confirm-that-uk-climate-scientists-manipulated-data-to-exaggerate-global-warming/

[devolve]

.

Mann-algore-Obama are worse crooks thay Bernie MaddofF was/is

And Hillary promising 100 billion a year for 10 years to 3rd world stoneage countries is another scam to be paid for by US taxpayers

All timed to hit after Hussy Junior is no longer “Present”

We all know what Hussy Junior’s “Promises-Promises” are worth:

“I promise! - We’ll do it all on C-Span so Americans can watch the hearings and debates and Congress working on UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE REFORM FOR ALL! (except 15-30 million more plus illegal aliens - which we will dump on US taxpayers later - When US voters are stunned and unconcious and bankrupt!)”

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

See #37...Dr. Gray from New Zealand has something to say about where Data Fudging may be going on....

Eight of these authorities agree that the globe is currently cooling. Only GISS disagrees.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Has to be one of those magical tricks on a computer...you know about that!

[potlatch]

I will tell you that I take great delight in going and reading The Drudge Report headlines several times a day now.

Obama seems to be tanking in every endeavor. What is happening is that now that his popularity is going down, everyone is starting to pile on. It's really startling to read all the people criticizing him about every thing he does now!

[potlatch]

[Has to be one of those magical tricks on a computer...you know about that!]

LOL! I must be suffering from seasonal stress because I honestly didn't think of PHOTOSHOPPING!! As you know, I don't do that type of photo shop so just didn't think about it.

[devolve]

.

Well - it is 22°F right now

Tomorrow night will be 16°F

Time to go to the beach!

[potlatch]

[Tomorrow night will be 16°F
Time to go to the beach!]

Wow, devolve!
You’re gonna need more than that beach blanket you carried in your TR-3!!