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To: tired1

IMHO, catching tax cheats (rich or otherwise) is NOT a bad thing. Everyone needs to follow the law. They should also go after politicians too.


2 posted on 12/12/2009 9:52:37 AM PST by rbg81 (DRAIN THE SWAMP!!)
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To: rbg81

Sure, no one should cheat on their taxes. Everyone should pay what they legitimately owe. However, several problems with this and the tax system generally.

1) The laws are too complex, and depending on who makes the determination of compliance, you can get conflicting responses about what is legal/acceptable per the tax code. The conflicting interpretations of tax code can come from within the IRS itself, not just between the IRS interpretation and that of the tax payer or their CPA.

2) Given the complexity of the tax code, the enforcement of the code is arbitrary.

3) The tax code turns our historic legal legacy on its ear - under tax law, the taxpayer or “suspect” is presumed guilty and one must prove their innocence to escape the dictates of the IRS. Why do we tolerate this presumption of guilt when our justice system is supposed to be based on the presumption of innocence?

4) Arbitrary enforcement of laws and the tax code, along with the presumption of guilt in tax matters, is a pre-condition for tyranny and is the basis of a totalitarian state.

The IRS functions as a tyrannical force in our society and is antithetical to the promise of freedom that is supposed to be the basis of the American system.

This should be obvious to all when the president says the goal of the tax system is not to generate revenue efficiently for the function of government, but is instead a means of achieving what the left perceives as fairness in the allocation of economic and political benefit.

People understand that the government requires funding, and seem to accept the tyranny of the IRS as a matter of fact. Probably because they are scared to speak up in fear of an audit. We need to re-write the tax code, dismantle the IRS, and come up with a better way of funding government that is more in line with the principles of freedom held in the spirit of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.


94 posted on 12/13/2009 9:22:59 AM PST by citizenK
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To: rbg81

We spend more on international collections than we make and are one of the few countries that taxes its citizen offshore without representation I might add. It means we are more expensive to employ around the world and are thus less competitive.

These guys hate success and individual wealth.They want us to have to get money through them alone...like Venezuela and Zimbabwe.


98 posted on 12/13/2009 9:54:18 AM PST by colonialhk (Elect Veterans not Lawyers)
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To: rbg81
"IMHO, catching tax cheats (rich or otherwise) is NOT a bad thing. Everyone needs to follow the law. They should also go after politicians too. "

How about we start with the US government start following the constitution instead of tweaking it into chaos !

So then, you feel it is OK for the US government to ILLEGALLY interpret the constitution and create a crushing tax burden to embezzle 60% of your EARNED income

But for some reason it is a heinous sin if you rebel and try to escape the governments ILLEGAL and lawless embezzlement of YOUR earned income.

106 posted on 12/13/2009 10:42:28 AM PST by KTM rider ( ..........tell me this really isn't happening ! !)
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To: rbg81

I seem to recall that the IRS is in the process of hiring a thousand or so new agents, not hundreds.


107 posted on 12/13/2009 10:43:25 AM PST by muddler
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To: rbg81
If the income tax were not used to redistribute wealth, I would agree with you.
108 posted on 12/13/2009 10:56:23 AM PST by soakncider ("...we've got to keep our heads 'till this peace craze blows over")
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To: rbg81

I heard a prominent tax attorney say that no one could honestly state that they had never violated an IRS rule. I guess we should all be jailed?


110 posted on 12/13/2009 11:16:00 AM PST by nickcarraway
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To: rbg81
IMHO, catching tax cheats (rich or otherwise) is NOT a bad thing. Everyone needs to follow the law. They should also go after politicians too.

Indeed. It's ironic watching the boys that report to Tim Geitner going after tax cheats.

115 posted on 12/13/2009 12:41:27 PM PST by stevem
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To: rbg81

In my NEVER to be humble opinion, ANYONE who can avoid, evade or not pay income or property taxes, government employees excepted, has MY blessing. Those are the most evil inventions of mankind, for they give government WAY too much control over people.


119 posted on 12/13/2009 3:01:25 PM PST by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub. III OK)
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To: rbg81

“IMHO, catching tax cheats (rich or otherwise) is NOT a bad thing. Everyone needs to follow the law.”
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Are you serious? We have a secretary of the treasury who is a known tax cheat and a tax code that is beyond the understanding of even the people who are responsible for enforcing it not to mention the poor souls who are supposed to abide by it and we have a marxist president and congress spending money faster than it can be printed and you say everyone needs to follow the law. Do you also think everyone should learn to flap their wings and fly like an eagle?
I suggest you think longer before posting next time. It is best to have some actual understanding of what you are about to comment on.


131 posted on 12/13/2009 6:36:54 PM PST by RipSawyer (Trying to reason with a leftist is like trying to catch sunshine in a fish net at midnight.)
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To: rbg81
IMHO, catching tax cheats (rich or otherwise) is NOT a bad thing. Everyone needs to follow the law. They should also go after politicians too.

I wasn't going to post to you, but you are so impassioned in defense of your position that I believe you need to be "schooled" a bit:

http://www.wegelin.ch/download/medien/presse/kom_265en.pdf

This is an 8 page pdf file wherein Switzerland's oldest bank explains to its investment clients that they need to get out of Dodge (American investments, that is).

The reason? Owebambi's IRS goons are busily redefining the nature of a "US person" for the nature of US taxation.

===============================

From Zero Hedge:

"If you are a non-US citizen, living outside the US, the IRS can compel your bank to make you pay taxes on ALL your assets, be they in America or not, merely because you own SOME assets in the US, such as stocks or Treasuries. This is especially relevant in inheritance taxes.

The Wegelin piece goes on to say that, if the non-US residing, non-US citizen refuses to pay these taxes on non-US assets, then the American IRS can sequester a foreign bank's US assets—even if they are merely acting as custodians—in order to enforce their decision (which is not necessarily made with judicial review).

That would mean, for instance, that if a foreigner, Johann Suisse, living in Zurich with a net worth of ChFr 10 million and a mere $10,000 in US Treasuries with UBS dies, then the IRS can conceivably demand that his heirs pay 45% inheritance tax in the United States on all ChFr 10 million—and if his heirs refuse, then the IRS can seize UBS's assets in the United States, even if UBS is acting as a custodian of those assets and is not in fact their owner.

The Wegelin paper describes these issues in much more detail, explaining quite clearly what the implication of the UBS decision is—not for Americans, but for NON-Americans who are NOT residents in the US.

Therefore, in order to avoid this possibility—which is very real, after the UBS deal—Wegelin very prudently is telling its non-US citizen, non-US residing clients to get out of all US assets.

Wegelin is smart—other banks will follow. This means that non-US capital will not want to invest in the United States for sound tax reasons—exactly when America needs foreign capital the most."

140 posted on 12/14/2009 5:38:16 AM PST by an amused spectator (The money vampires fear garlands of lead & brass)
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To: rbg81

Silly -

“politicians” are the ruling class,
they are not subject to the same rules as the “ruled”.


152 posted on 12/14/2009 7:26:41 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a humanist and a Satanist is that the latter knows who he's working for.)
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To: rbg81

Devide and conquer.

Get us to fight amoug ourselves about who is a a tax cheat and who isn’t.

This is done through the tax code.

The tax code is immoral.


157 posted on 12/14/2009 11:41:25 AM PST by kennyboy509 (Ha! I kill me!)
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To: rbg81

They can start with the current Secretary of the Treasury and members of Congress. This IRS hit squad will probably go after Republicans.


162 posted on 12/14/2009 4:02:30 PM PST by kabar
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