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To: vladimir998
"The Church has never gone any further than that and probably never will."

A lot has happened since Pius XII. In an October 22, 1996, address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Pope John Paul II updated the Church's position to accept evolution of the human body:

"In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII has already affirmed that there is no conflict between evolution and the doctrine of the faith regarding man and his vocation, provided that we do not lose sight of certain fixed points....Today, more than a half-century after the appearance of that encyclical, some new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than a hypothesis. In fact it is remarkable that this theory has had progressively greater influence on the spirit of researchers, following a series of discoveries in different scholarly disciplines. The convergence in the results of these independent studies – which was neither planned nor sought – constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory."

In the same address, Pope John Paul II rejected any theory of evolution that provides a materialistic explanation for the human soul:

"Theories of evolution which, because of the philosophies which inspire them, regard the spirit either as emerging from the forces of living matter, or as a simple epiphenomenon of that matter, are incompatible with the truth about man."

Cardinal Ratzinger, In the Beginning: A Catholic Understanding of the Story of Creation and the Fall [Eerdmans, 1986, 1995],

We cannot say: creation or evolution, inasmuch as these two things respond to two different realities. The story of the dust of the earth and the breath of God, which we just heard, does not in fact explain how human persons come to be but rather what they are. It explains their inmost origin and casts light on the project that they are. And, vice versa, the theory of evolution seeks to understand and describe biological developments. But in so doing it cannot explain where the 'project' of human persons comes from, nor their inner origin, nor their particular nature. To that extent we are faced here with two complementary -- rather than mutually exclusive -- realities.

In a book released in 2008, his comments prior to becoming Pope were recorded as:

The clay became man at the moment in which a being for the first time was capable of forming, however dimly, the thought of "God." The first Thou that – however stammeringly – was said by human lips to God marks the moment in which the spirit arose in the world. Here the Rubicon of anthropogenesis was crossed. For it is not the use of weapons or fire, not new methods of cruelty or of useful activity, that constitute man, but rather his ability to be immediately in relation to God. This holds fast to the doctrine of the special creation of man . . . herein . . . lies the reason why the moment of anthropogenesis cannot possibly be determined by paleontology: anthropogenesis is the rise of the spirit, which cannot be excavated with a shovel. The theory of evolution does not invalidate the faith, nor does it corroborate it. But it does challenge the faith to understand itself more profoundly and thus to help man to understand himself and to become increasingly what he is: the being who is supposed to say Thou to God in eternity."

1,818 posted on 12/13/2009 7:19:18 PM PST by Natural Law
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To: Natural Law

You wrote:

“A lot has happened since Pius XII.”

You can post EXACTLY NOTHING from any Church source that Catholics are actually supposed to rely on for an understanding of the faith.

You cite for instance, “address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Pope John Paul II updated the Church’s position to accept evolution of the human body:”

JPII didn’t do anything of the kind. He expressed his personal opinion. No pope in a statement to a pontifical academy can “update” the Church’s position. That’s not how it works. Sorry, the Church doesn’t work that way. Trust me, I’ve looked into this in detail. There is NOTHING of any import since the 1950s.

you cite:

“Cardinal Ratzinger, In the Beginning: A Catholic Understanding of the Story of Creation and the Fall [Eerdmans, 1986, 1995],”

Completely irrelevant. He wasn’t pope then. It doesn’t matter what he said or did. It was all just private opinion. When he comes out with a papal statement on evolution (and he might) let me know.

“In a book released in 2008, his comments prior to becoming Pope were recorded as:”

Exactly, prior to his becoming pope. So, it’s completely useless in this discussion.

I do not mean to sound brusque. It’s just that - for some reason - Catholics who support theistic evolution act as if they have forgotten basic Catholic doctrine. Documents from a pope before he was pope count for exactly nothing. I would have thought every literate Catholic would have known that since the recantation of heresy by anti-pope John XXIII in the 15th century!

There has been exactly NO development of doctrine in any “major league” Catholic document since the 1950s regarding evolution. None. Zero.


1,822 posted on 12/13/2009 7:43:20 PM PST by vladimir998
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