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To: Huck
The delegates were sent, after all, to amend the Articles, specifically to give to the general congress the power to regulate commerce and the power to lay taxes.

Article VIII of the Articles of Confederation: "All charges of war, and all other expenses that shall be incurred for the common defense or general welfare, and allowed by the Unites States in Congress assembled, shall be defrayed out of a common treasury, which shall be supplied by the several states in proportion to the value of all the land within each state."

There again is that pesky "general welfare" term you love so much. As for taxation, the Congress already had the power to tax, so what was the problem? Do you think our government should have been taxing real estate? Imagine the mischief if the government from the beginning could tax real estate! We had to wait 130 years or so for the awful 16th Amendment. There is no telling what slavery we would be in if the government could tax our homes.

Now, as for your strawman argument, No one was arguing for COMPLETE state sovereignty in the Union, when in actuality that was the situation, since Congress had zero power to enforce anything. Oh, and without an executive to execute the laws, or a judiciary to settle claims between the states or against the Congress, what was the point?

37 posted on 12/09/2009 2:58:03 PM PST by Jacquerie (Support and defend our Beloved Constitution!)
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To: Jacquerie

Yes, it’s instructive to see how little mischief the term “general welfare” caused in the confederacy, where its proper meaning was obvious, and where the powers of the general government were EXPRESSLY delegated, and how much trouble it caused under the Constitution, where “implied powers” combined with a supreme judiciary gave the national government unlimited power to grow, and the mixture of nationalism and federalism under one complete system confused and blurred the line between general powers and those reserved to the states.


39 posted on 12/09/2009 3:03:51 PM PST by Huck (The Constitution is an outrageous insult to the men who fought the Revolution." -Patrick Henry)
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To: Jacquerie
No one was arguing for COMPLETE state sovereignty in the Union, when in actuality that was the situation, since Congress had zero power to enforce anything.

Incorrect. The United States in Congress voted to send delegates to amend the articles, specifically to give the general government the power to regulate commerce and the power to collect taxes to pay off its debts. There was agreement among the states on these points. No one was arguing for disunion. Hamilton in #1 and Jay in #2 both question the motives of their opponents, rather than deal in the substance. They are the ones using strawmen, as if the choice was Constitution or disunion and anarchy. There were other choices. Like amending the Articles,i.e., staying within the scope of what you were tasked to do.

43 posted on 12/09/2009 3:12:49 PM PST by Huck (The Constitution is an outrageous insult to the men who fought the Revolution." -Patrick Henry)
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To: Jacquerie
No one was arguing for COMPLETE state sovereignty in the Union, when in actuality that was the situation, since Congress had zero power to enforce anything.

Incorrect. The United States in Congress voted to send delegates to amend the articles, specifically to give the general government the power to regulate commerce and the power to collect taxes to pay off its debts. There was agreement among the states on these points. No one was arguing for disunion. Hamilton in #1 and Jay in #2 both question the motives of their opponents, rather than deal in the substance. They are the ones using strawmen, as if the choice was Constitution or disunion and anarchy. There were other choices. Like amending the Articles,i.e., staying within the scope of what you were tasked to do.

45 posted on 12/09/2009 3:13:01 PM PST by Huck (The Constitution is an outrageous insult to the men who fought the Revolution." -Patrick Henry)
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