E-mails show Washington state battled to keep Clemmons in custody

The Seattle Times ^ | December 2, 2009 | Jonathan Martin, Jim Brunner and Ken Armstrong

[Stoat]

When Maurice Clemmons, the man suspected of killing four Lakewood police officers, walked free from a Pierce County jail last week, it wasn't for lack of effort on the part of Washington officials to keep him behind bars.

Documents released Tuesday show that a wide variety of state and local officials — everyone from prosecutors to sheriff's deputies to corrections officers — viewed Clemmons as a dangerous man, and wanted desperately to keep him in custody.

But Washington officials encountered resistance from an unlikely source — their correctional colleagues in Arkansas. The acrimony has since become so intense, according to Pierce County sheriff's spokesman Ed Troyer, that if the two states were adjacent a "border war" would break out.

The dispute now centers on whether a warrant issued by Arkansas in October would have allowed Washington authorities to prevent Clemmons' release from the Pierce County Jail six days before the shootings occurred. Arkansas says yes. Washington says no.

(edit)

"I'm concerned that you have no problem releasing your offender into our community, based on his behavior," she wrote. "I thought ICAOS was all about community safety."

(edit)

[4woodenboats]

Good point.

In this case, they have every right to.

[amom]

There are so many errors and such in this...should be an eyeopener to folks that the system is broken and its going to take some work to fix it.

This was an eye opener for me.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2009/12/01/2010399732.pdf

[NoLibZone]

Where did this guy get 19 grand for bail?

[Stoat]

Where did this guy get 19 grand for bail?

I read elsewhere that he had gotten a loan by using his house as collateral as well as getting another part of the money as a loan from 'a friend'.

Having trouble locating that source again now.

Although this page doesn't address that issue, it might be of interest nonetheless.

Judges defend Clemmons bail decisions Local News - The News Tribune Seattle-Tacoma News, Weather, Sports, Jobs, Homes and Cars South Puget Sound's Destination

[Stoat]

And of course I found it immediately after I had given up:

That number got whittled down by Jail Sucks Bail Bonds in Chehalis to $15,000. An amount Clemmons was able to cover after putting his home up for collateral and getting a loan from a friend.

Playing the Maurice Clemmons Blame Game - Seattle News - The Daily Weekly

[Scotsman will be Free]

A whole lot of CYA is going to be happening in good old Olympia. AS you know, they are very good at it.
In an earlier story I read that a judge had given an order for no bail, and that the last judge had overruled that and given a bail figure. Any truth to that or further info that you are aware of?

[livius]

They’re all pointing fingers at each other, but there’s plenty of blame to go around, mostly because the whole system is built on the idea that the true victim is the imprisoned criminal himself and that evil people (us) put him in jail.

Aside from that, I keep noticing that Clemmons’ family (which appears to have branches in both AR and WA) seems to keep popping up in this. I wonder if any of them work for the court or parole system in either of these states...

[ThisLittleLightofMine]

Washington State (apologies to SW WASH and Eastern WA) is an absolute corrupt, broken socialist state, I would not be so quick to glorify them or blame Arkansas. From the top to the bottom rotten through and through.

[Jack Black]

The only winner in this tragedy is the bail bondsman, who scored $19,000 for three days of work.How did he score $19,000 bucks? My impression is: he took a 10% deposit from the perp and gave the full bail amount to the Court. I'm not an expert but I'm not sure going on a police-killing rampage = fulfiling the requirments of your bail. Therefore, it's not clear to me that he get's back his $190,000 from the state. That might make him a loser, not a winner.

[Jack Black]

Washington State (apologies to SW WASH and Eastern WA) is an absolute corrupt, broken socialist state. No apology needed, it's true what you say. At least we don't have an income tax, but its only a matter of time I suppose. I've thought about our state a lot. I favor secession of states as a way to get the unbearable Fed out of our life. That could be a non-violent process of states voting to leave, or voting to stop participating in many federal mandates, programs, ponzi schemes, etc. But the problem is ths Sound has enough people to trump the rest of the state. So that's not enough to fix our problems in Washington. We need to get the liberals to leave. Or partitiion.

[4woodenboats]

This was an eye opener to me

No kidding. I think much is left out.

His community corrections officer (probation officer?) calling the jail to make sure he was still in the same day before Clemons made bail....didn't the probation officer know there had been a bail hearing, and wasn't he informed that Clemons was being released?

Or was he waiting for DSHS to make an appointment for him after they stopped by and made sure Mr. Clemons was comfortable?

[zeestephen]

Jack Black...MediaMole.....

The bondsman simply guaranteed that the accused individual would be at all scheduled court appearances for the rape case and the punching the sheriff case.

The bondsman didn't guarantee good behavior.

That would be financial suicide for just 10% of the bail.

Also, the bondsman just guarantees the bail to the court.

He would not actually deliver the $190,000 to the court until months after the accused individual fails to appear.

If the accused individual failed to appear, the court gives the bondsman a period of time to locate the individual and deliver him to the court, which is what “Dog the Bounty Hunter” does for bondsmen all over the country.

The bondsman will keep the whole $19,000 since his client made all scheduled court appointments before the client died.

[DakotaRed]

Okay, why do our state officials give a tinkers damn what Arkansas says or wants?

If he’s in our jails for crimes committed here, how does Arkansas have any say in hte matter?

[Jack Black]

Thanks! This was a good explanation. You obviously understand this. I’m trying to.

So, lets say he had not died, and had shown up at trial. In that case the bail money is returned to the bail bondsman, right. Does he keep it? Or does it go back to the defendanat? (Less some fees/ percentage).

If he keeps it that’s a pretty horrible deal and I’m surprised people actually deal with them as frequently as they do.

Assuming that the bail is more like a loan than a fee, why would the death of the criminal mean the bondsman keeps the bail. Would not the killers heirs get whatever the killer would have got back for fulfilling the term of the bail?

[sionnsar]

Thanks to Stoat for the ping.

Say WA? Evergreen State ping

Quick link: WA State Board

FReepmail sionnsar if you want on or off this ping list.
Ping sionnsar if you see a Washington state related thread.

[Not A Snowbird]

I like Detective Troyer.

He was a very good spokesman for Pierce County, keeping everyone updated with as much detail as he could without compromising the hunt.

He had a couple of great “don’t get stuck on stupid” moments with the media on the first day, and pretty much owned them from that point on.

[Stoat]

Okay, why do our state officials give a tinkers damn what Arkansas says or wants?

If he’s in our jails for crimes committed here, how does Arkansas have any say in hte matter?

According to the article, there are laws which either mandate or limit what a given State can and cannot do with an offender when another State has an active warrant or claim of some kind against the offender.  From the article:

On Tuesday, Washington's top prison official blasted Arkansas.

When the Washington DOC initially asked for — and got — a nationwide fugitive warrant from Arkansas in May, the Washington DOC closed the case, ending its oversight of Clemmons. The DOC believed Clemmons would now be Arkansas' responsibility.

"At that point, he's a problem for the state of Arkansas," Washington DOC Secretary Eldon Vail said. "If he's picked up, he's going back."

But when Arkansas rescinded its warrant, that left DOC temporarily without supervision on a man it considered dangerous. Vail said if the Washington and Arkansas positions were reversed, Washington would have taken Clemmons back. Last year, Washington retook 986 felons from other states, Vail said.

"We do this every day," he said.

(edit)

And, unlike the May 28 warrant, the second warrant was not entered into the National Crime Information Center (NCIC), a law-enforcement database. Interstate compact guidelines appear to require that the state issuing a warrant — Arkansas, in this case — must enter the warrant into NCIC in order to make it enforceable.

Pierce County employees checked the NCIC twice and found no warrants for Clemmons, a county official said.

(emphasis mine)

*************************************************

That being said, I agree with the thrust of your post in that every State 'should' be able to properly protect its residents regardless of the actions of other States.  Sadly this mass-murder has shown it to be another obvious, basic principle that can be short-circuited when bureaucracies and Governmental oversights fail.

And Zero wants even more Governmental 'oversight' into our lives under the Trojan horse of healthcare 'reform'.

For some reason, this does not make me feel safer.

Okay, why do our state officials give a tinkers damn what Arkansas says or wants?

If he’s in our jails for crimes committed here, how does Arkansas have any say in hte matter?

[Stoat]

I like Detective Troyer.

He was a very good spokesman for Pierce County, keeping everyone updated with as much detail as he could without compromising the hunt.

He had a couple of great “don’t get stuck on stupid” moments with the media on the first day, and pretty much owned them from that point on.

Agreed on all counts.  We have spectacularly professional, hardworking and magnificently competent people throughout law enforcement.  It's a terrible shame that their efforts are so frequently upended, negated and overturned by faceless and largely unaccountable bureaucrats and politicians, as well as by laws which mainly serve to coddle criminals and place the honest and law-abiding majority of people at needless risk.  My father was a policeman, and his constant complaints of having his hands tied and being prevented from doing the job that he knew needed to be done by bureaucrats, politicians and laws which placed the public at risk were the primary force that kept me from pursuing a career in law enforcement.  I am so very, very thankful that we have so many wonderful law enforcement officers who are willing to subject themselves not only to the inherent dangers of the job but to the political and legal forces which seem bent on endlessly restraining law enforcement to the point of  keeping the public in danger....I don't have the patience for it but I'm so very glad that there are still many who do. 

I like Detective Troyer.

He was a very good spokesman for Pierce County, keeping everyone updated with as much detail as he could without compromising the hunt.

He had a couple of great “don’t get stuck on stupid” moments with the media on the first day, and pretty much owned them from that point on.

[SuperLuminal]

Agree...
Agree...
Agree...

This guy has aways reminded me of the character that Burt Lancaster played in that 1956 movie..."The Rainmaker"

[zeestephen]

“So, lets say he had not died, and had shown up at trial. In that case the bail money is returned to the bail bondsman, right. Does he keep it? Or does it go back to the defendant? (Less some fees/ percentage).”

The money the defendant pays to a bondsman - 10% of the bail is typical - is gone forever.

The bondsman keeps it.

In this case, the bondsman received $19,000, but he risked losing $190,000.

Off the top of my head, I'd guess the average bail is much lower, probably about $15,000.

So, most defendants are very glad to pay $1500 instead of sitting in the county jail for months, waiting for trial.

The bondsman only makes a promise to the court to pay.

Before trial, no money actually changes hands between the bondsman and the court.

If the defendant does flee and is not found, the bondsman (and his insurance company) would have to pay the court $190,000.

Also, the bondsman might have to pay many times his 10% fee just to get a bounty hunter to search for a bail jumper.

Financially, in the long run, it can be a very good business.

The downside?

Almost all your “customers” are sociopaths, or criminals, or drug addicts, or alcoholics, or ex-cons, or pathological liars, or potentially violent, or mentally ill.