Posted on 10/28/2009 11:06:04 AM PDT by gandalftb
Armed F-16s from the Wisconsin Air National Guard were on the runway and could have shot down the errant Northwest flight, officials said today.
"As a force of last resort, NORAD is always prepared to do whatever is necessary," NORAD spokesperson Mike Kucharek told ABCNews.com.
Air traffic controllers feared Northwest Flight 188, might have been hijacked after its pilots failed to respond to radio transmissions for more than an hour.
Air traffic controllers reported the pilots initially failed to respond to commands as it passed from the air space controlled by the FAA Denver Center into the area controlled by the Minneapolis Center.
The concern grew as the pilots ignored a command from the Minneapolis approach controllers to begin a descent for landing.
The National Counterterrorism Center in Washington was notified, and authorities began to scrutinize the passenger list, according to Pierre Thomas and Jason Ryan of ABC News.
Once contact was re-established, after an hour and 18 minutes of silence, the controllers ordered the pilots to carry out a series of zigzag maneuvers in order to prove "the pilots had command and control of the craft,".
Controllers tried used a variety of FAA frequencies, the Northwest private frequency and texting services to contact the plane.
The pilots finally responded when contacted by the Denver controllers—-an indication they had not changed frequencies on their radios when they passed into the Minneapolis air space.
The pilots had to be asked three times if they were okay and had control of the plane.
The pilots said they had a "cockpit distraction" and were having a "heated discussion" about a "company issue,".
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
Actually, I’m being extremely compassionate being a Pilot myself...... The Chinese would have a more drastic punishment....:-(
Whatever it turns out to be, it's going to be very interesting!
As I pointed out in an earlier post, in this post 9-11 world the only thing that kept this from being a really scary story was the fact the transponder was not turned off and it continued to respond normally. Nearly every hijack scenario includes turning the transponder off to make it more difficult to track the plane by not having any of the info usually provided.
My concern would have been they had fallen prey to the same thing that got the golfer and his plane and crew several years ago. No indication of any problem until they failed to contact ATC and didn't make a turn that they were expected to make. Turns out they were all dead. And the only hint of trouble was the lack of radio contact and not following their flight plan. Both situations were in play here.
Great discussion. Thanks for the time and effort to go back and forth!
“Much less fly past MSP, no chance that gets un-noticed.”
When flying over a isolated major population center in “flyover
country” (after dark in this case, IIRC)...anyone in a window seat
with a watch would have to tempted to ask the flight attendants after
seeing the plane fly past the city lights:
“Uuuhhh, wasn’t that The Twin Cities, our destination, we left in
our rearview mirror 15 minutes ago?”
If gas is used in the cockpit, is there some hacker who could control the plane from either in the cabin or on the ground?
You know, I used to worry about being wacky, but realized that someone talking about a handful of guys who would take down the World Trade Towers within an hour with a set of box cutters... they would have been considered coocoo for coco puffs.
Hey, big boy! looks like you've penetrated my screen name!
Of course they weren't groggy. That bolus of adrenalin saw to that the moment they awoke and recognized their surroundings.
I think your and other people’s concerns and arguments were valid too. While I do play the contrarian, I am by no means exonerating this crew. Thanks to you too, for the nice discussion.
Something went amiss here, and it is important that it not happen again.
Take care.
What about the passengers? Has anyone interviewed them to find out the demeaner of the flight crew (non-pilot) during the hour they lost contact? Were they nervous? Were they nonchalant? Were any of them awake? And by that, I mean crew AND passengers.
Oh, and if they were so distracted that they didn’t hear traffic control and other planes trying to contact them, and they were off their charted destination... this could have been a mid air collision waiting to happen.
Maybe pilots are TOO reliant on auto-pilot.
What if...
What if there were gas in the cockpits of 20 planes simultaneously? The door to the cockpit is locked and secure. No way to unlock it from the main cabin, is there?
There have been a number of instances where suspicious men spent a very long time in the first class bathroom. At least once they interrupted a man trying to dismantle part of the wall in that bathroom which is adjacent to the cockpit.
Sounds crazy but who knows what these guys are up to
2 things:
1) jet fuel $
2) landing schedules messed with
How about: UFO — Missing Time
From link: "There have been several cases of persons who testify that they have experienced missing time just by being in the close proximity of a UFO craft. This phenomenon could potentially be defined through physics given Einstein’s theory of relativity recounts that time is relative, and that time travels slower in the company of a[n artificially intensified] gravitational field. It has been shown in many UFO sightings that UFO crafts may possess a strong gravitational field [which] may possibly make time manipulation conceivable for close observers."
Or not.
If they were on autopilot, they would not have overflown their destination by 150 miles.
Nor would they have been maintaining 35,000 feet. Descent usually begins a half hour before touchdown, and the autopilot is programmed for this too.
Of course, they could have programmed the autopilot to overshoot their destination, but how likely is that?
How would we like to see a plane get shot down because of pilot inattention?
Wouldn’t Obama have to okay that? The decision would take months.
That is a fascinating whole other area of discussion. There are always bound to be some (many?) passengers with enough understanding and interest in air travel to understand speeds, altitudes and headings. With that information they can determine, if interested, where they are at all times during the flight.
In fact, many airlines had this data available to first class passengers at different times.
After 911, is it not obvious that the passengers are not just passive cargo, but a source of potential help. Remember Flight 93?
I remember the story recently about an Air Force Crewman flying civilian across the Pacific. It happened that his usual job was refueling other aircraft in flight, and he noticed a major fuel leak by just looking out his window, and he informed the crew. The flight would have never reached its destination.
In short, if the passengers had flight information as they travel, it is almost certain that someone would question a major deviation like this controversial one, long before a 150 mile overshoot.
"while you were on a frolic of your own."
indeed, the lack of reports on comments from the passenger cabin is in itself rather odd. It is a perfectly logical second source of media drama. Frequent or attentive travelers surely knew they were not descending on time and asked flight crew.
Good points.
There so much that stinks about this.
- in a post 9-11 world where yelling at a stewardess can earn you federal charges...fighters were not scrambled despite the lengthy loss of contact and failure to descend at the appropriate time.
- The lightening speed with with their ticket was yanked. Both the Federal Government and the aircraft industry only have two two speeds of operation: glacial and stopped. The incident happened on the 21st and revocation is dated the 27th. http://komonews.s3.amazonaws.com/cheney_Revised.pdf
The 24th and 25th were Sat & Sun, so the whole testimony, review, decision, and notification only took 3 business days?
I think somebody wants this to go away PDQ.
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