From a thread about the F-16's this morning "Air traffic controllers reported the pilots initially failed to respond to commands as it passed from the air space controlled by the FAA Denver Center into the area controlled by the Minneapolis Center. The concern grew as the pilots ignored a command from the Minneapolis approach controllers to begin a descent for landing."
Thread has a news report that explains a little more about what ATC was doing or attempting to do if you haven't seen it yet. Still leaves some questions though.
More details in the FAA Revocation letter sent to the pilot.
http://komonews.s3.amazonaws.com/cheney_Revised.pdf
Approach control, as I have now said several times, does not work traffic at 37,000 ft.
I know a lot has changed since I quit. I am sure that digital messages have replaced the land lines to some extent, but when I flew it went something similar to this. Those who still fly, please excuse if my memory is rusty on some of the details.
Center calls MSP approach on the land line. Center says something like: NorthWest 357 (or whatever the flight number is) is cleared to 12,000. ..blah blah whatever.
The approach controller sees the transponder code with an altitude readout and has a flight strip on the flight. He acknowledges that he has got the blip identified and the center then hands the flight off to approach.
Or that is the way it worked then as well as I remember it.
It is amazing how much detail one forgets. I used to have every frequency memorized along the routes I flew regularly and now the only freq I can remember on my home airport is tower and ground. I can't remember clearance delivery, airport advisory, approach or departure.
By the way, I forgot in my earlier post that it is my recollection that the controllers used to have a feature where they could block codes from flights above or below their territory because the tags on the display could be so thick that they prevented the controller from seeing his own traffic. Another reason the controller would not pay any attention to a raw blip on his screen. He would only know that it was a target not under his control and of no interest.
In the case in point, he could turn the feature back on and read the tags on everything. But he would be unlikely to do so unless center was asking for his assistance or giving him a hand off.
I assume that is still an available feature.
So MSP approach would not be giving instructions to a flight at 37,000 fit for several reasons, one being that every flight level down to 18,000 is under the control of the center and the approach controller would be descending the flight through all of those levels but not talking to any of the flights in those levels.
Now it is entirely possible that MSP approach called the flight on every one of their frequencies in an effort to establish contact in the hopes that the flight had one of those freqs set up. That is much more likely. It may also be that the center gave approach the permission to issue a clearance to him, but that is not likely. The center probably would have told MSP to try him and if successful have him switch to XXX.xx. Anyone actively flying today and knows what he is talking about, please feel free to correct me if my memory is rusty or if there have been major changes in procedure.
I forgot.
Although the flight levels are the exclusive territory of the centers, they also control down to 10,000 at MSP so that is 7 more altitudes with potential traffic.
I did not read your link on the FAS letter until after I posted and found from that that this took place around 8:00 PM.
If MSP is as busy as it was a few years ago, I would assume lots and lots of traffic.
MSP is not the biggest city in the country by a long shot, but they do have a lot of traffic due to the excellent business climate there.
Another interesting thing. I saw in the letter that the flight was cleared for an in route phase at 35,000. So did they really end up at 37,000? Did they get a new FL after they got off and running or did they bust another rule?
Interesting.
I wish the FAS would declare that they committed a crime so they could impound those laptops.
I will bet they were not even turned on. Something else is behind this and I don’t go for the “it was a test” theory. No one is going to screw the schedules of 140 however many passengers and scramble for a test.
If the laptops were on, looking at miss boobs frolicking with Mr. Porn would be the only thing ON A LAPTOP that could cause two guys to go into a 90 minute trance.
Of course, the aliens could have sucked out their brains an taken them to the mother ship.
Bu the way, I also read somewhere that in addition to the company freqs, they now have email that rings the crew. So add another audio feature to the mystery.