This gives more detail
Posted on 10/22/2009 9:53:36 PM PDT by ErnstStavroBlofeld
China recently announced the decommissioning of "Submarine 303." This was a Type 33 boat (a copy of the Russian Romeo class). Romeo was the successor to the Russian Whiskey class boats, which were, in turn, based on the German Type XXI. The German design first showed up in 1943, and was the first modern submarine, in that it was designed to spend most of its time underwater (with just the snorkel device and periscope above water, to bring in air for the diesel engine and crew). The Type XXI was a 1,600 ton (on the surface) sub, compared to the 1,500 ton Romeos. Russia built over 500 Romeos, while China built over 80. Only about 7-8 of the Type 33s are still in service, used mainly for training. They rarely go to sea.
What was most interesting about this retirement was the official comment that the sub had steamed 38,000 kilometers at sea over its 20 year career. That comes out to less than a week at sea a year. This was not unusual. Chinese subs are not built well, and there have been many breakdowns and accidents at sea. The Chinese have preferred to keep their subs tied up at dock, and have the crew practice there. Not very good training, but it does reduce the risk of losing the boat at sea. And it is good for crew morale.
China has been trying to improve the quality of its subs, and warships in general. They stopped building Type 33s in the 1980s, and began producing 21 boats of an improved design (the Type 35), which they built until the end of the century. These were more reliable boats, and spent somewhat more time at sea than the Type 33s.
(Excerpt) Read more at strategypage.com ...
So where are all the doom sayers that challenged my writing yesterday?
Heck, I could have written this article.
pic at link, courtesy google earth
Some more info http://www.stratfor.com/ballistic_missile_submarines_only_way_go
Oh here is my post:
China thus far cannot even make a decent knock off of anyone’s automobile. They are junkier(no pun intended) than cars from India.
Their Army has a lot of cheap ass guns which may or may not work depending on how you hold them.
They cannot field an army with sufficient skill to overtake an enemy of superior tactics(Okay here come the Mao argument, please don’t and read on.)
They cannot feed nor provide the logistical support to any forces fielded because they lack logistical skills, stores of food, ammo and replacement parts.
As such they could not provide water to continue the day.
They are in an energy deficit and cannot refuel to more than 300 miles from anywhere in China.
They are a total net importer of fuel and cannot create or dig some up.
They lack the industrial base to make quality heavy machinery, Tanks or even bulldozers
They lack technologies and will always lag behind the USA in areas such as jets, stealth, Micro-electronice, communications, etc.
They have yet to deploy any bluewater ships required for shore based fighting. They aren’t going to either.
They cannot produce but a few Destroyers and don’t have the capacity for more.
They cannot match our range and guidance or even over the horizon abilities to mark a target an hit it with precision.
They lack the ability and will always lag our ability to accurately hit a target over and over and over.
They have years to go before they are competent in logically coordinating Land, Sea and Air forces. You must be able to range a target with Air, or Naval or land based tools and close that distance to ensure the target has been destroyed.
For all intents and purposes they have no cavalry brigade in the form of helicopters.
It get worse for a communist wanting to come to America and fight us and the lists are endless for their drawback positions,which will take them years to develop to any competency.
Did I say Laser, who has more of them and the many types?
Oh, and probably not a good idea to attack your largest customer, who is also the defacto leader of NATO the largest coalition force in the world.
Okay, so NATO may no be a good example but they are there.
So let’s see who China fights if it ever happens....
Well, first would be the USA and America Loves a winner, Canada, UK, Australia.
Not real good odds if one ever looked at a couple of wars in the 20th century.
But, hey, if we do bomb their ass into submission, we can always rebuild the country, giving freedom to Tibet, Uighars and others.
Hell we will even send C130’s packed with food so everyone can eat again.
Then we will clean up their waterways. That will please Russia.
Show them how to manage the environment and say something on the order of “A people who have for nearly a century been enslave by communism are free. No more will they have to read about Mao as a great leader. He never was. Etc, Etc, Etc,”
It will go something like that.
In short, if it happens it won’t in my life.
I have one. But showing the entry and exit of the submarune pen
...oops! Me and my big mouth!
Cheers!
SsshH!
All that is true, but what they can do, right now, is invade, conquer and hold Taiwan if they choose to. They can screw with the US financially, and they can cause trouble in the oil markets. They can be more than a pain in the ass, and they are feverishly working on their military, logistical and naval capacity. We need to take them seriously.
they could invade Taiwan?
And Hold it?
ROTFLMAO!!!
How pray could they do that? We have given Aegis class Destoyers and Taiwan is a part of USMJC under a peace treaty with Japan.
Further, they no ability to control sea. We own Sea, Air and Land.
Our numbers are superior in strength for accuracy and coordination.
They have no, zero, appreciably effective battle group and even if they did, they would have to contend our surface ships, Carriers and Air to Air or Air to ground capabilities.
Not going to happen.
This their pipe dream to get back a dead guy named Chaing Ki Check.
They can work all they want but if they can’t even make a decent knock off of a car, their sea going strength is in barges and shipping vessels.
Hardly the vessels needed to control a football size territory on the sea.
They have worked to build transports capable of crossing the Taiwan Straits. What is it? 90 Miles? You don’t need a bluewater navy for that. They have missiles capable of obliterating Taiwan, and their version of Exocet “ship killer” missiles that can sink a Carrier. It wouldn’t take much to invade Taiwan and once there it would be difficult to dislodge them.
So I imagine they make it to Taiwan and they resupply how? Their ships are gone every time they launch.
Barack Obama.
With him, there's no way we could win.
This gives more detail
bfl
He is a Global Shill and poster boy for Fail.
They could do it...if a U.S. President chose to let them.
No mentioning names, now...
What? NO? /s
With his "Peace Prize", there ain't no way he'd ever stand up for anything.
Besides, the Chinese are his idol. Communist.
Are you saying that DoD exaggerates the threat from the PRC/PLA?? What the hell are we spending all that money on Defense for??
The Chinese could do it the old fashioned way and forage for supplies to augment what they can carry with them.
Their soldiers are primarily cannon fodder so the type of logistics we see as necessary do not apply there.
They will try Korean War tactics of massed troop attacks in an effort to overwhelm Russian defenders.
The Pacific Ocean is their back door, not the front.
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