South CarolinaPing
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Posted on 10/21/2009 8:25:00 PM PDT by neverdem
aramos@thesunnews.com
School employees, students and visitors to schools will now need to make sure they leave their concealed weapons at home, even if they have a permit.
The Georgetown County School District voted Tuesday to ban all concealed weapons from all district property, including parking lots.
The move was in response to a plea from the Georgetown Police Department.
A state law enacted in June made an exception to the state's ban on weapons on school property. The law allows those with permits to have a concealed weapon on school grounds if it is in a parked car in a locked compartment or if the individual is inside the vehicle.
"Law enforcement is against this 100 percent," said Capt. Nelson Brown of the Georgetown Police Department. "We go with a zero-tolerance policy with firearms on school property."
People will break into cars and if there are guns there it will mean that firearms are in the hands of non-permitted individuals, Brown told school board members. He also said confrontations could escalate with students if they know they can break into a teacher's car and get a gun.
Concealed weapons permits are issued to adults 21 and who have taken a trained safety course, passed an exam and background check.
The law passed by the General Assembly in June was designed to protect people who have permits and keep guns in their cars when dropping their children off at school, and teachers who keep their guns in their cars for protection during their commute, said Sen. Shane Martin, R-Spartanburg, one of the sponsors of the legislation.
"I'm talking to you from the standpoint as a parent and from a law enforcement standpoint," Brown said. "Weapons on school grounds is a bad idea."
The school began considering the ban before an incident Friday at Carolina Forest High School in Horry County, in which a student armed with knives was shot to death during a fight with the school's resource officer.
School Board Vice Chairman Benny Elliott expressed concern that the way the district's policy is written it would hurt parents and others who drop children off at school and teachers who carry concealed weapons for protection while traveling to school.
"We have teachers that travel all across this county, who will now say 'I can't carry my gun between my house and 40 miles,'" Elliott said. "What if someone is carrying for protection? You can't stop kids from coming to school armed. Look at that kid at Carolina Forest High School. He didn't have a concealed weapons permit and he brought a weapon to school and attacked someone."
Elliott pointed out that criminals will find a way around the system and it was important to protect the rights of those who have the proper permits.
Brown responded with, "The ends justify the extremes."
The police department does not plan to go after parents and others who are driving on school grounds to pick up and drop of their children, Brown said.
After some discussion the board voted to pass the ban, which will affect students, all district employees and visitors. Signs are expected to go up soon around schools.
District employees who violate the ban could lose their jobs. Visitors who do not adhere to the ban could face charges. The consequences for each violation will be determined on a case-by-case basis, said Superintendent Randy Dozier.
Dozier said he has been surprised by the amount of attention the ban has attracted from the media and from gun lobbyists. He said he has had calls from several newspapers and television stations on the issue.
"My job is to provide the safest possible environment,'' he said. "If you have guns on campus...the possibility is there that someone could access them."
As for a local policy counteracting state law, Dozier said there has been legal precedence when an employer is able to ban concealed weapons on their property.
Employees who have concealed weapons permits and weapons can park off school grounds, Dozier pointed out.
The district does use drug-sniffing dogs for random testing about once a month at different sites around the district.
The dogs do pick up the smell of gunpowder and will be able to detect some weapons, Dozier said.
Contact ALIANA RAMOS at 626-0300.
No need for self defense. If I lived in Georgetown county, I’d hang myself.
Elliott pointed out that criminals will find a way around the system and it was important to protect the rights of those who have the proper permits.
Brown responded with, "The ends justify the extremes."
Can the police provide a 100% guarantee that no-one will come on school grounds armed? In other words, will all parking lot entrances and every door to every building be guarded by an armed officer at all times while students and faculty are on the grounds? No? Then you are attempting to deny citizens their Constitutionally guaranteed fundamental right to self defense. Everyone should come to school armed. Sorry, but in defending the Constitution "The ends justify the extremes."
“Law enforcement is against this 100 percent,” said Capt. Nelson Brown of the Georgetown Police Department. “We go with a zero-tolerance policy with firearms on school property.”
People will break into cars and if there are guns there it will mean that firearms are in the hands of non-permitted individuals, Brown told school board members. He also said confrontations could escalate with students if they know they can break into a teacher’s car and get a gun.
_______________________
What utter Bravo Sierra. Spoken by the kind of cop who can’t stand the thought that anybody who isn’t a cop could possess a weapon. “The ends justifies the extremes” - what ARROGANCE! Same rationale that forces me to leave my weapon at home when I go on base, when I have three expert marksmanship awards (2 AF, 1 Navy) and an “all-access” Texas CHL. Makes no sense.
Colonel, USAFR
Uh oh.
Another “gun free” zone.
You know what that means...
Now that they’ve created yet another government mandated soft-target, they can get down to the business of appropriating money for the inevitable grief counseling.
The Board can possibly legally prohibit them on school property, but the existence of a state law that permits them under certain conditions will put that prohibition into a legal quandary.
There is no legal CRIMINAL penalty for failure to follow a school board POLICY, so threats of arrest are BS. The chief's argument about breaking into cars would be laughed out of court. They could however threaten a person's job if they brought a weapon onto the property.
But unless the person bringing the weapon onto the property tells them they have done so, then using the power of the police to detect an activity that is not illegal but simply against a governmental entity’s policy might violate some right of the fired person.
Legally very interesting. Would love to be arguing it when it comes to court, and it will come to the Bar, but if you are there, DO NOT volunteer you have a weapon or answer any questions along that line without advice of local counsel.
Well we can see that this cop is not alone
Section 930, Title 18, United States Federal Criminal Code states
“Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in federal facilities, buildings, or installations is illegal. Anyone who attempts to or violates this provision shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than a year, or both.”
“Gun Free Zones” should apply to cops too.
“The dogs do pick up the smell of gunpowder and will be able to detect some weapons, Dozier said.”
Might be interesting to regularly spinkle a little gunpowder on/around Superintendent Dozier’s car.
So, El Jefe, why do you allow criminals such wide latitude?
Elliott pointed out that criminals will find a way around the system and it was important to protect the rights of those who have the proper permits.
Brown responded with, "The ends justify the extremes."
Spoken like a true totalitarian Liberal licker of criminals' boots...and a tacit admission that you and your cops are useless at preventing crime.
And, speaking of 'preventing crime': why, Oh High And Mighty Chief, are you not only condoning, and openly advocating, but even conspiring to violate state law, which you are supposedly sworn to enforce?
Pawleys Island is in Georgetown Cty as well as DeBordiue and other super wealthy liberal havens. The more that the MIchiganders, New Yorkers, etc. flood into that area the more they bring along their rotten stench of do gooder government is everything ways.
This part of SC has a high % of 2 citizen categories that have no respect for the US Constitution nor the BoRs...white Libs and their friends still on the Plantation!
“The dogs do pick up the smell of gunpowder and will be able to detect some weapons, Dozier said.”
All I have to say is, “Bull, Dozier!!”
Militant
That’s the section, alrighty. Pisses me off every time. I’ve made some feeble attempts to get support for changing it, but nobody in Congress wants to touch it.
What doesn’t make sense to me is that we’re all trained to handle weapons. You’d think they’d WANT us to carry in order to maintain some comfort level with the weapon, rather than shooting every 3 years and never touching it in between - THAT’s dangerous, not having a licensed carrier carry.
grumblegrumble...
Colonel, USAFR
“I have been in law enforcement of over 28 years, both local and federal, and I have always maintained that an armed citizenry is the best defense against crime. Any cop who disagrees isn’t worthy of wearing the badge. Period.”
I appreciate your point of view. In my experience, you’re in a minority of LEOs who see that having responsible people carry weapons IS a deterrent - and there’s that whole, “When seconds count, the police are only minutes away” thing, too...
Thanks for your service, TBM.
Colonel, USAFR
The cop in the article is a captain. In my experience, the more an cop is promoted away from the street, the more a purely political animal he becomes. That’s why street cops oftentimes have an opposing opinion from their chiefs: because chiefs are bureacrats, just like the captain in the article. they do not deal with criminals on a daily basis. Instead, they deal with politicians and paperwork.
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