His model defined what information is. It is the action of successful communication, not the message itself.
Information (Shannon, successful communication) is the reduction of uncertainty in the receiver (or molecular machine) as it goes from a before state to an after state.
The receiver becomes informed as a result of a successful communication. That letter in your mailbox is not information. When you read it, then and only then, are you informed and information has occurred.
Williams metainformation is a horse of a different color. His is not a mathematical model of that class it is an interdisciplinary complex systems theory focused on the rise of functional complexity in biological systems. It is not portable to another discipline, e.g. engineering.
His theory focuses on causation, cause>effect and therefore an arrow of time. For that reason, origins are within the domain of his investigation unless he were to specifically exclude them by postulate or axiom.
But even diehard atheists can and do benefit from these mathematical models.
And the only arrow of time he retains is essentially Shannons mathematical theory of communication in a continuous case, e.g. message, encoding, channel, decoding.
As long as the material system is closed to efficient cause, by his definition, it is alive. Again, his definition: "a material system is an organism if, and only if, it is closed to efficient causation."
He is speaking of material systems, not spiritual ones. And he is not saying the material system is closed to other causes.
On your musings about dimensions, Tegmarks Level IV Parallel Universe and the ghost hunting program
Dimensionality has a very specific meaning in mathematics and physics. It is geometry per se - one of my favorite subjects!
But in common parlance, the term is often used to mean not altogether here as in perceptible to the physical senses.
And I suspect that was the thrust of the ghost hunters conjecture, that the spirit of the departed is kind of here and there all at once.
By my discernment, this is not incompatible with Scripture. Jesus appeared in the midst of a closed room, the temple, ark, Holy mountain and Eden/paradise are seen in both heaven and earth. And we are advised to be cautious, that we may be entertaining angels unawares,
Jewish mystics have described the firmament as not being a matter of geometry, physical here and spiritual there, earthy here, heavenly there - but rather a boundary between the material and spiritual. Some have conjectured it might have something to do with the speed of light (the speed limit of the universe) or the vibration of strings in string theory.
Others speculate that it is indeed related to the geometry - the mathematical and physical dimensionality of "all that there is."
It is my testimony that I am truly dead and alive with Christ in God. Or to put it another way, I am more aware of being alive in Him than I am of being alive in the flesh. Until this physical body plays out, my spirit is anchored to it. But one day I will weigh anchor and be free of it.
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. - Galatians 2:20
Or to put it another way, one can have a glimpse of the magnitude of the cosmos, the wonder of quantum field theory or the faithfulness of the physical laws and reason that there had to be a beginning of space, time and causality itself. But if he does not perceive the information, that living things are a message (DNA) being communicated, then he might deduce that whereas there was a Creator that man is an insignificant part of the creation and certainly not worth a second thought to God.
But we who have ears to hear discern Jesus, Logos, the Word of God, speaking to us. We perceive not only that we are a message being communicated, but that there is also a spiritual message which we can and do receive which enlivens us. The new person we are is a new spiritual message being communicated. Therefore we understand it is not about the flesh, that His words truly are spirit and life.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: - John 10:27
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. - Matthew 4:4
[[His model defined what information is.]]
ah- didn’t know that- I thought it was about the communication of info- This owuld then make it information theory
[[Williams metainformation is a horse of a different color. His is not a mathematical model of that class it is an interdisciplinary complex systems theory focused on the rise of functional complexity in biological systems.]]
Yeah that makes sense- quite different than desribing how informaiton is communicated- more a case of describing the heirarchy of information and the need for a designer- top down annalysis- He I think more hsows the final result, and shows that nature isn’t capable of creating the heirarchy needed for fitness and complexity
[[As a Christian, I immediately see this unreasonable effectiveness of the math (Wigner) as Gods copyright notice on the cosmos.]]
Math isl ike Latin to me- My eyes glaze over when confronted by it lol
[[He doesnt skip over first cause. He entails first and final cause in the circular model.
And the only arrow of time he retains is essentially Shannons mathematical theory of communication in a continuous case, e.g. message, encoding, channel, decoding.
As long as the material system is closed to efficient cause, by his definition, it is alive. Again, his definition: “a material system is an organism if, and only if, it is closed to efficient causation.”
He is speaking of material systems, not spiritual ones. And he is not saying the material system is closed to other causes.]]
I’m gonna have to take soem time when I’m rested to see the connections or disconnections- too tired right now to link everything
[[But in common parlance, the term is often used to mean not altogether here as in perceptible to the physical senses.]]
Yeah- that’s what the Gost hunters were kinda saying- the dimension of ‘past times’ is here- we just don’t perceive it well (well somethign to that effect)
[[And I suspect that was the thrust of the ghost hunters conjecture, that the spirit of the departed is kind of here and there all at once.]]
Yep- it’s soemthing they call ‘Residual haunting’- the ghosts just carry on as though they haven’t passed away, and do the same routines over and over again, like goign to the kitchen for dinner, goign to bed, or playing in a band etc (one of hteir tests was to recreate the era band music to try to stir up more ‘ghost activity’, hoping hte ghosts would feel in their element hearing the music they were familiar with
[[By my discernment, this is not incompatible with Scripture. Jesus appeared in the midst of a closed room, the temple, ark, Holy mountain and Eden/paradise are seen in both heaven and earth. And we are advised to be cautious, that we may be entertaining angels unawares, ]]
Yeah- I beleive in angels appearing and evil spirits manifesting, but not in people’s souls hanging around between heaven and hell- to be absent of hte body is to be present with hte Lord (or to be sent hte other way depending on whether someoen accepted Salvation or not)
[[Jewish mystics have described the firmament as not being a matter of geometry, physical here and spiritual there, earthy here, heavenly there - but rather a boundary between the material and spiritual. Some have conjectured it might have something to do with the speed of light (the speed limit of the universe) or the vibration of strings in string theory.]]
Yeah- the string hteory is somethign I’ve always wanted to explore further- but never got aroudn to- sounds quite interesting.
[[It is my testimony that I am truly dead and alive with Christ in God. Or to put it another way, I am more aware of being alive in Him than I am of being alive in the flesh.]]
That is somethign I can’t quite get a grasp on myself- I know how I should feel about it accordign to God’s word, but the physical just overwhelms the fleshly experiential for me I’m afraid
[[Information (Shannon, successful communication) by the way is what I believe Einstein and Newton missed. Both of them reasoned that there was a Creator but both of them died before the insight of information theory, and I suspect they would have reasoned differently had they known.]]
Sure3 owuld have liekd to have seen hteir reasoning on the subject
[[But we who have ears to hear discern Jesus, Logos, the Word of God, speaking to us. We perceive not only that we are a message being communicated, but that there is also a spiritual message which we can and do receive which enlivens us. The new person we are is a new spiritual message being communicated. Therefore we understand it is not about the flesh, that His words truly are spirit and life.]]
It’s certainly a very humbling experience to know that the Omniscient God chose to create to convey his Omniscience in such a powerful manner- He did so not for His own self-congratulations, but rather for our wide-eyed amazement upon discovery