Truthers vs. Birthers: Not All Conspiracy Theories Are Created Equal

Pajamas Media ^ | Sept. 23 | Athur Chrenkoff

[AJKauf]

To put it in fairytale terms (the next closest thing to a conspiracy theory), we are taking here about Pinocchio versus Lord Voldemort on steroids and the stimulus package.

Or to return to uncles once again, it’s the difference between an uncle who wears his underwear on his head and an uncle who sexually molests 6-year-old girls, strangles them, and then buries their bodies in his backyard.

Everything in life, including craziness, is a matter of degrees. That’s why we should be wary of an automatic resort to moral and other equivalence as a debating tactic. To do so risks conceding far too much for the momentary comfort of mental egalitarianism. No country on earth is perfect, true, but the United States has been a hell of a lot better in all respects than the Soviet Union. Democracy (or capitalism) might be the worst system ever invented, as Churchill reminded us, except for all the others. All conspiracy theories are deluded, but not all of them are equally contemptible and dangerous.

The belief that NASA faked the moon landing gave us a few laughs; the belief that the Elders of Zion were conspiring against civilization gave us the Holocaust.

The truth, more often than not, tends to be quite prosaic. On August 4, 1961, Barack Obama was born at Kapi’olani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital in Honolulu, Hawaii, of an American mother and a Kenyan father. On September 11, 2001, nineteen al-Qaeda operatives, without prior knowledge by any government (bar that of Afghanistan), used four airplanes as flying bombs against targets in New York and Washington...

[arthurus]

On August 4, 1961, Barack Obama was born at Kapi’olani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital in Honolulu

Can the author cite public records that can be seen by the rest of us, other than undocumented assertions?

[The Comedian]

On August 4, 1961, Barack Obama was born at Kapi’olani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital in Honolulu, Hawaii, of an American mother and a Kenyan father.

Asserting a thing does not influence its veracity one way or another. Assuming that Barry Whatever was telling the truth about his birth place and time is to take the word of a proven serial liar. This is the height of gullibility.

Without objective forensic documentary evidence proving this assertion true or false (this is a Boolean equation, there is no "partly"), his birth place, and further to the point his natural born citizenship and eligibility to hold office, are completely unknown.

Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

[meandog]

Birthers, 9-11 "Inside Job" Truthers, Moon Landing Denial Believers, Biderberger Believers, Jews Wanting to Rule the World... All are Keepers Of Odd Knowledge Society members!

[thecraw]

On August 4, 1961, Barack Obama was born at Kapi’olani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital in Honolulu, Hawaii, of an American mother and a Kenyan father/

Two words: PROVE IT!

[tumblindice]

“fairytale terms ... Pinocchio versus Lord Voldemort on steroids ... an uncle who wears his underwear on his head and an uncle who sexually molests 6-year-old girls, strangles them, and then buries their bodies ... craziness ... “

Objections: loaded words, appeals to emotion, lack of context and various non sequiters.

“On August 4, 1961, Barack Obama was born at Kapi’olani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital in Honolulu, Hawaii, of an American mother and a Kenyan father.”

Objections: Begs the question & assumes facts not in evidence.

Sustained. Bailiff, whack Mr. Chrenkoff’s pee-pee.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Assuming that Barry Whatever was telling the truth about his birth place and time is to take the word of a proven serial liar.

I thought he had claimed he was born at both hospitals at one time or another.

[thecraw]

Birthers, 9-11 "Inside Job" Truthers, Moon Landing Denial Believers, Biderberger Believers, Jews Wanting to Rule the World... All are Keepers Of Odd Knowledge Society members!

Lumping in Truthers and Moon Landing Deniers with those of us who simply want Barry to produce his authentic bona fides gives you zero credibility. The real "kooks" are the Obots and the Enablers who blindly accept Barry's word as to who he really is.

[The Comedian]

I thought he had claimed he was born at both hospitals at one time or another.

It's not what he says, it's how he says it... http://theplaintruth.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3563052

Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

[MHGinTN]

The liar's sister named one hospital as his place of birth, he claimed a different place of birth.

It is interesting to note that the propagandists like Chrenkoff will wave around the Internet image of what Barry claims is a genuine CoLB photopgraphed by the obsequious Factcheck.org, and it is simple to show that exhibit is not genuine because it lacks the word 'Amended' which by law it should have if actually produced in HI in June of 2007--as it purports with the fakey date stamped on the reverse side. Simple logic is all that is needed to refute the claims that these fraudulent images exhibited by factcheck and by Obama on his website are genuine, unaltered documents. If one takes as axiomatic that a birth certification was entered for Barry in 1961 in Hawaii, the at the very least his vital records would have been amended when his mother made pleading in her divorce suit--in 1980-- against Lolo Soetoro, the man who adopted Barry and made him an Indonesian citizen several years earlier. In 1980, Barry was still legally Lolo Soetoro's responsibility as peld in Stanley Ann's divorce suit, so he would have to have amended his vital records at least once to reassert his name to Barack Obama and no longer the Indonesian citizen son of Lolo Soetoro. We don't know that he ever did that, but he has presented sworn documents which use Barack Obama and which claim he has never been known by any other name (the IL Bar Application he signed). So, if he is not a lying fraud, he has to have at least one amendment to his vital records with regard to the legal adoption by Lolo Soetoro but that means he is a lying fraud because he has proffered documents as proof of bonefides which cannot be valid Hawaiian issued documents ... not any of the three images posted at Factcheck and Obama's campaign site has the word required by law, 'Amended'.

[curiosity]

I thought he had claimed he was born at both hospitals at one time or another.

Nope. That is yet another birther urban legend. It amazes me how many urban legends birthers are so quick to believe. Let's see, there's the legend about the 1981 travel ban to Pakistan, the legend that Bambi would have lost his US citizenship if adopted in Indonesia, the legend that his grandmother claims to have been present at his birth, the legend that his sister has a Certification of Live Birth from Hawaii, and many, many more.

It's amazing how easily people accept the word of crackpot bloggers as if it were gospel.

[curiosity]

The liar's sister named one hospital as his place of birth, he claimed a different place of birth.

Bless your heart. Accepting yet another blogger-initiated urban legend as if it were gospel truth.

[MHGinTN]

You know you're lying and I know you're lying, and if you persist I will post more than the following so everyone reading this will also know you're a liar at FR:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=79900
The issue of the authenticity of Obama's original birth certificate is further muddied by communications from Sen. Obama's half-sister, Maya Soetoro, who has claimed Obama was born in two different Hawaii hospitals.
In a November 2004 interview with the Rainbow Newsletter, Maya told reporters her half-brother Sen. Barack Obama was born on Aug. 4, 1961, at Queens Medical Center in Honolulu; then in February 2008, Maya told reporters for the Honolulu Star-Bulletin that Obama was at the Kapiolani Medical Center for Women and Children.
Last week in Hawaii, WND retained a top private investigator with extensive FBI training and tasked with visiting both the Queens Medical Center and the Kaliolani Medical Center to investigate claims that Obama birth certificates existed at either hospital.
But the private investigator reported that on Thursday and Friday of last week, sheriff's deputies were stationed at both hospitals to fend off press inquiries about Obama's birth certificate.

[Non-Sequitur]

Without objective forensic documentary evidence proving this assertion true or false (this is a Boolean equation, there is no "partly"), his birth place, and further to the point his natural born citizenship and eligibility to hold office, are completely unknown.

Couldn't the same be said about Bush's complicity in 9/11, as many Truthers claim?

[curiosity]

The issue of the authenticity of Obama's original birth certificate is further muddied by communications from Sen. Obama's half-sister, Maya Soetoro, who has claimed Obama was born in two different Hawaii hospitals.

Sorry, I don't follow your logic. How does the authenticity of Obama's COLB get muddied by allegedly conflicting statements about his hospital made by a woman who wasn't even alive at the time of his birth?

In a November 2004 interview with the Rainbow Newsletter, Maya told reporters her half-brother Sen. Barack Obama was born on Aug. 4, 1961, at Queens Medical Center in Honolulu;

So WorldNutDaily claims. Unfortunately, they completely fail to substantiate their claims with any evidence. Given WorldNutDaily's propensity to make stuff up, I'm not inclined to believe them unless they supply proof that Maya actually said that. To date, no one has yet produced a shred of evidence that she said anything of the sort.

WND retained a top private investigator with extensive FBI training and tasked with visiting both the Queens Medical Center

Bless your poor, credulous heart. Your eagerness to accept the word of anonymous "investigators" hired by WorldNutDaily would be cute if it weren't so sad.

[The Comedian]

Without objective forensic documentary evidence proving this assertion true or false (this is a Boolean equation, there is no "partly"), his birth place, and further to the point his natural born citizenship and eligibility to hold office, are completely unknown.

Couldn't the same be said about Bush's complicity in 9/11, as many Truthers claim?

The Truthers have only circumstantial, hearsay and wacky provable falsehoods as "evidence". Like counting on the autobiography of a serial liar, it is an irrational basis upon which to convict.

Allowing Obama to serve in office based on the hearsay evidence supplied to date is more like convicting Bush of 9/11 based on twittering Truther statements: Unsubstantiated hearsay and conflicting nonsense.

Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

[MHGinTN]

[[ These are the other two confirmed News sources of Obama's birth:
On Page 2 of the November 2004 Rainbow Edition newsletter (Queen’s Medical Center):
http://www.hawaii.edu/labschool/re040523.pdf

And on Page 8 of the Spring 2009 Inspire Magazine (Kapi‘olani Medical Center).
http://www.kapiolanigift.org/press_room/Publications/Inspire%20Magazine%20Spring%202009.pdf:

27 posted on Friday, July 10, 2009 2:38:02 PM by BP2 ]]

[BP2]

To date, no one has yet produced a shred of evidence that she said anything of the sort.

You are out of your league here, troll. Don't even try...

[Non-Sequitur]

The Truthers have only circumstantial, hearsay and wacky provable falsehoods as "evidence".

Sounds like most Birther threads I've seen.

[Red Steel]

The Truthers have only circumstantial, hearsay and wacky provable falsehoods as "evidence".

Sounds like most NS posts I've read.