Posted on 08/27/2009 11:32:55 PM PDT by Iam1ru1-2
Political power, rather than substance, is at the heart of the Democrats' proposed health care legislation. Admission of that power-politics reality was the most significant occurrence in a very odd town-hall meeting Tuesday night held by Virginia Democratic Rep. James P. Moran. It is now clearer than ever that plaintiffs' lawyers collectively are the political powerhouse running the health care show.
A constituent at the meeting, quite reasonably, asked Mr. Moran the following question: "There is $200 billion of savings over 10 years if you have [lawsuit] reform, and nobody loses but the lawyers. Why isn't [lawsuit] reform in the bill?"
On this question, as on more than half of those asked by the audience, Mr. Moran deferred to his guest, former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, to provide a response. Mr. Dean's answer was candid: "When you go to pass an enormous bill like that, the more stuff you put in it, the more enemies you make. The reason that tort reform is not in the bill is because the people who wrote it did not want to take on the trial lawyers in addition to everybody else they were taking on, and that is the plain and simple truth.... This bill has enough enemies. The more groups you take on, the more enemies you make."
When Mr. Moran retook the microphone, he praised the constituent for "a very good question" and added, "that's your answer ... a good answer."
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...
Tort Reform?. . .TORT REFORM!. . .Slowly I turn, . .and step by step. . .inch by inch . . .
What a lot of hooey! Here are the real facts. Payouts to victims and their “greedy lawyers” are LESS THAN ONE HALF PERCENT of total health car costs.
http://insurance-reform.org/TrueRiskF.pdf.
Page 29 is interesting. Shows ratio of tort payouts to total health care costs since 1975. The whole article is good. Click on some of the links within the articles.
parsy, who is getting sleepy
It’s the huge cost of practicing “defensive medicine” that adds enormously to the cost of health care. Few medical malpractice cases end in jury awards but they are enormously expensive and generate billions in legal fees even when the cases are settled or withdrawn before trial.
Hooey on your hooey! The payouts may be as low as you say (probably higher) but it is the effects of those lawsuits that increase defensive medicine. That defensive posture makes a 30 cent pill cost 40 bucks, pressures doctors to do every test even when they know it is not necessary to cover any lawsuit potential, that has jacked up exponentially the cost of insurance for doctors to practice, etc. At the same time the ability to pay straight out of pockets is essentially eliminated due to the lack of inter-state insurance options (also due to lawyers) which disallows lower rates for general coverage and catastrophic.
Real facts? You cited an article drafted by a partisan group (who wants insurance reform- this group is part of the movement attacking insurance companies as evil capitalists) as true facts?
additionally, you misquoted the one fact that you posted here to support your fallacious argument. The article said that med mal INSURANCE PREMIUMS are less than one half of one per cent of health care expenditures- NOT the payouts to claimants and their attorneys. Do you even understand the difference?
Med mal cases represent a small fraction of all the tort cases filed. Unfortunately, libtards frame the issue about medmal only. Most multi-million dollar verdicts are in cases that are NON-med mal cases. Most tort lawyers’ case loads include NON-med mal cases- perhaps one med mal case for every 100 other tort cases.
Tort reform MUST include ALL torts- not just med mal cases. The trial lawyers are once again fooling Americans like you by focusing the argument only on med mal instead of across the board tort cases, which are responsible for clogging up the civil court system.
Sounds like you are a lib in conservative clothing, mistating facts and stats and calling tort reform “hooey”.
Pathetic.
It is the legal system and the lack of accountability and transparency.
The legal system in America is broken and corrupt.
Lawyers run the White House, Senate and Congress, and are proven greedy, stupid,
and ignore any, and every, law which happens to be inconveniently in their own way.
Lawyers designed the olde "health" program (the 'pyramid of food') that led to American obesity. Enough, already
[Lawyers also make sure no one will never see the undocumented Pres_ _ent's BC. Convenient?] Self-serving?]
Go to the linked article. Scroll down to page 3, and hit that link to the New Yorker article. The doctor flatly tells you the doctors run tests to run up charges.
You can also, just do the math yourself. Greedy lawyers get about 40% of the payout, 40% x $4.5 billion is about $2 billion max, in 2008. (FWIW, medicare fraud by doctors and health providers was about $60 billion, or 30 times what greedy lawyers got, and that’s assuming every single malpractice claim was frivolous.)
Now, pick your rate of what you think defensive medicine costs? There are no good studies. I have seen estimates of 5%, 10%, or guesses like $100 billion, or $200 billion. Pick your number. Lets assume 10%.
That equates to $240 billion per year. So the result is, doctors order $240 billion in unnecessary tests to save $4.5 billion in outlays???? (60 times) or look at it like this. Altruistic doctors and health care providers get $240 billion while greedy trial lawyers get $2 billion, and the bunch getting the $240 billion blame the bunch getting $2bilion.
Yeah, sure. Follow the money.
And here’s another thing. Why do you never see the actual dollar amount of malpractice insurance premiums and payouts on any of the articles that are pro tort reform? Wouldn’t these numbers be the starting point for any rational discussion about tort reform?
parsy, who says you guys have been “punked” by the insurance companies and the GOP
Go to page 29 like I said and see where the numbers came from. Gee, its the A M Best Company, an insurance service company.
And you are right about the premiums being less than one percent. They are $11 billion in 2008. Maybe I didn’t provide the payouts. But they are in the chart. Go back and look at it. They come in at a whopping $4.5 billion, less than one half of one percent. What’s that spread? About $6 billion to the good for the insurance companies.
The article discusses insurance company profitability. You might actually try reading it.
parsy, who is trying to be helpful
The insurance industry operates on about a 3% profit margin according to stats cited by Mark levin last week. Compare that with 9% profit of the beverage industry. Perhaps the Marxists’ next move should be taking over Coca-Cola and Bud Light.
The push against “evil, capitalist, greedy” insurance companies is bullshuit propaganda to get their fascist health care reform passed. Dont fall for it!
You may be correct on the percentage of total healthcare costs that go to victims of malpractice and their “greedy lawyers”. In a multi-trillion dollar industry billions don’t make a large percent. But these payouts DO have a tremendous effect on physicians needing to charge more to cover malpractice to avoid the potentially huge (but rare) claim payout. So they order more tests, they charge more, hospital administration is more costly and on and on and on the ripple effect is enormous. (See states that have limits on medical tort claims as evidence of reduced costs and more physicians moving into the state: Texas getting more doctors: MS hemorrhaging OB/Gyns)
So for you to claim that the cost of litigation is solely tied to the payout of claims is so ridiculously misinformed (about economic incentives) that I accuse you of either deliberately attempting to deceive or of being completely ignorant. Your choice...
A or B? A or B? Hmmmmm. I choose C. If you will look on every one of these tort reform threads I get on, it gets around to “defensive medicine” costs. I do not run from these. Let me review this thread and see if it has got that far, yet.
parsy,who doesn’t lie or try to deceive
Check out number 8 above. The article also has a good link within it about defensive medicine. the “new yorker” article blows apart the “defensive medicine” will go down theory. Texas doctor admits its the money.
Try those. if you need more info, let me know and I will send it.
parsy, the true believer
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.