Cat out of the Bag: Dem Congresswoman Admits ObamaCare Covers Elective Abortions

LifeSiteNews ^ | 8/12/09 | Peter J. Smith

[wagglebee]

SAN JOSE, California, August 12, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A Democratic Congresswoman admitted to her California constituents gathered at a town-hall meeting what the Obama administration has tried desperately to keep quiet: the health care reform bill covers abortions.

"We know that over 90 percent of abortions are purely elective, not medically necessary. Why is this being covered when abortion is not clearly health care," Ignacio Reyes, a local pro-life advocate, asked Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Cali.) at a San Jose town-hall meeting.

As the applause for Reyes subsided, Lofgren, who represents California's 16th Congressional District, responded that the proposed Congressional reforms included "a basic benefit plan developed by health professionals."

"Abortion will be covered as a benefit by one or more of the healthcare plans available to Americans, and I think it should be," said Logren, eliciting jeers and protests from the crowd.

Footage of Logren's town-hall meeting (complete with subtitles) was recorded and posted to the internet by David Schmidt, a young pro-life videographer and founder of the website "Issues and Justice".  

Although abortion groups, such as Planned Parenthood Federation of America and NARAL Pro-Choice America, continue to claim the existence of an abortion mandate is a "myth," the Associated Press instead confirmed that H.R. 3200 - the only version accessible to the general public out of five other bills on health-care reform - includes abortion coverage under the Capps Amendment.

The Capps Amendment explicitly mandates that the public health insurance option - which aims to provide for 46 million Americans who now lack coverage - will cover abortions through federal funding not restricted by the Hyde amendment. The Hyde amendment, which must be renewed on an annual basis, only prohibits federal funding going to the Department of Health and Human Services (HSS) from paying for abortion. But as the AP report confirmed, that leaves open other streams of federal funding, which under the health bill (HR 3200) could be used to subsidize abortion.

Although the Capps provision forbids the proposed "Health Benefits Advisory Committee" from mandating abortion-coverage as an essential service in the "Health Insurance Exchange," it does mandate that every U.S. region have at least one abortion-covering private insurance plan. It also mandates one non-abortion-covering private insurance plan for every region.

The amendment goes on to require taxpayer subsidies in the form of "affordability credits" to flow to insurance plans that include abortion, but then demands insurers guarantee the "affordability credits" do not subsidize abortion procedures, as if somehow money loses its fungible nature.

Family Research Council first brought attention to the abortion mandate attached to HR 3200 in a provocative ad in which an elderly man finds out he is denied a surgical procedure, while the government plan covers abortions. (see FRC video)

Read related coverage by LifeSiteNews.com:

Palin Firestorm Brings Fresh Scrutiny to ObamaCare "Death Panels"
Dr. Emanuel, key Obama health care advisor, stated doctors take Hippocratic Oath too seriously 

Catholics United, NARAL Blast Family Research Council for Exposing Abortion Mandate in Health Bill 

Obama Healthcare Reform Bound to Include "Largest Expansion of Abortion Since Roe v. Wade": NRLC, Chris Smith 

Proposed Health Care Bill is an "Abortion Industry Bailout" Warns Congressman

[wagglebee]

Are you saying that a baby in the womb is not a person?

Absolutely not, I am saying that they have not yet been born.

Are you saying that God is unable to know the future as well as the past and present?

No, are you saying that we don't have free will? Are you saying that some are NEVER given the chance for Salvation?

Please respond with the Word of God, not the yearnings of your heart.

As I have already stated, Scripture is SILENT regarding those who are NEVER born.

[WVKayaker]

Aborted babies are "born". I am not "saying" anything. I am quoting what Scripture says. You just don't see it. Open your eyes, and read them again. It's even been translated into English for you.

I won't bother to repeat my previous quotes, but try actually reading what God says, not me!

God says ALL have sinned. The penalty for sin is death; eternal separation from God. God says He has known us from the womb. Therefore, we can extrapolate that we are completely open to God from conception, and before.

As previously stated, I don't make the rules. They are already in print! I just accept that God knows more than I, and I believe He knows my/our heart(s) from and through all eternity! Your mileage may vary.

Romans 9: 10 Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

[wagglebee]

So, where do YOU believe the aborted babies are?

[Dutchboy88]

Tap the brakes. You really are not the arbiter of whether I am mistaken. And, if you don’t see a “need”, then don’t do it. But, until threads are given such limitations, the rest of us will post as we think is appropriate.

And, it did have something to do with the Catholic Church because there was a link to Catholics United.

Further, it is interesting that there exists a compulsion to deliver a treatise on the salvation of the unborn, all the while making sure that we understand a response is not appropriate. Hmmm.

[WVKayaker]

So, where do YOU believe the aborted babies are?

Wherever God wants them!

Waggleby, I "foreknew" what your responses would be to my posts. I have seen your rote Roman Catholic learnings displayed constantly. I decided that today would be a good day to open this debate after reading your postings to others on this thread.

Your indoctrination and training has been quite good. But, it follows the RC lines, and often denies or belittles what Paul has to say about many things at odds with their goal of keeping their coffers overflowing. Fear of excommunication is a big one, if you believe your church is your salvation, and that only membership in your "church" makes you a "Christian". That is what you believe, isn't it?.

You say that the Scriptures says nothing, yet I posited that God has already spoken on the subject. You are calling God a liar, not me!

Moses never made it to the "Promised Land"!

Deuteronomy 4: 15 You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, 16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, 17 or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air, 18 or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below. 19 And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven. 20 But as for you, the LORD took you and brought you out of the iron-smelting furnace, out of Egypt, to be the people of his inheritance, as you now are.

21 The LORD was angry with me because of you, and he solemnly swore that I would not cross the Jordan and enter the good land the LORD your God is giving you as your inheritance. 22 I will die in this land; I will not cross the Jordan; but you are about to cross over and take possession of that good land. 23 Be careful not to forget the covenant of the LORD your God that he made with you; do not make for yourselves an idol in the form of anything the LORD your God has forbidden. 24 For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.

[wagglebee]

And, it did have something to do with the Catholic Church because there was a link to Catholics United.

So, you would agree that ANY group that claims to be Calvinist in nature speaks for Calvinism? That is like saying that the AARP speaks for all retirees.

Further, it is interesting that there exists a compulsion to deliver a treatise on the salvation of the unborn, all the while making sure that we understand a response is not appropriate. Hmmm.

Hmmm is right. YOU are the one that brought up salvation.

[wagglebee]

Wherever God wants them!

So, you agree that Scripture is SILENT regarding the state of murdered unborn babies?

I have seen your rote Roman Catholic learnings displayed constantly. I decided that today would be a good day to open this debate after reading your postings to others on this thread.

So, you decided to pick a thread which has NOTHING to do with the Catholic Church to tell me that I was wrong?

Your indoctrination and training has been quite good. But, it follows the RC lines, and often denies or belittles what Paul has to say about many things at odds with their goal of keeping their coffers overflowing.

Can you give an instance?

if you believe your church is your salvation, and that only membership in your "church" makes you a "Christian". That is what you believe, isn't it?.

You COULDN'T be more wrong.

You say that the Scriptures says nothing, yet I posited that God has already spoken on the subject. You are calling God a liar, not me!

NO, I'm calling YOU a liar.

[Petronski]

...if you believe your church is your salvation, and that only membership in your "church" makes you a "Christian". That is what you believe, isn't it?....

Be careful with this one, wagglebee.

He might not know what he's saying is complete baloney, but he reserves the right to drive to where you live to have it out with you.

[Petronski]

My sense, and if I am wrong I will be the first to admit it, is that your post is an attempt to engage Catholics . . .

I believe the more accurate verb here is "to provoke."

[wagglebee]

If they want to provoke Catholics that’s fine, they should just pick a thread with actually has something to do with Catholic doctrine. This thread is about Zero’s deathcare plan.

[MrB]

But that’s not their mindset.

Being covered under the public plan without a requirement on any other available plan is not acceptable to the pro/had-aborts.

[Petronski]

Apparently, attacking the Catholic Church is more important to them than attacking Obama's fascist plans for eliminating worthless eaters, which sounds more appropriately evil in the original German: Vernichtung lebensunwerten Lebens.

[WVKayaker]

...if you believe your church is your salvation, and that only membership in your "church" makes you a "Christian". That is what you believe, isn't it?.

You COULDN'T be more wrong.

If I am not a member of the Roman Catholic church, accepting it's doctrines as truths, how can I be saved from eternal damnation?

[wagglebee]

The irony is I pinged a bunch of FReepers who I am friends with who have longstanding differences with Catholicism over certain doctrinal matters. But I also pointed out that they have always been appreciative and supportive of the Church’s leadership in the fight against abortion.

I notice that NONE of them wanted to come in here and criticize Catholics on pro-life issues and NONE of them wanted to defend the notion that the 50 million Americans murdered in abortuaries since 1973 are damned because that’s simply the way God “elected” it.

[WVKayaker]

Good morning, Pete. You're only responding because you want to make your points about your interests, aren't you. Enjoy...

Deuteronomy 4: 15 You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, 16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, 17 or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air, 18 or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below. 19 And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven. 20 But as for you, the LORD took you and brought you out of the iron-smelting furnace, out of Egypt, to be the people of his inheritance, as you now are.

21 The LORD was angry with me because of you, and he solemnly swore that I would not cross the Jordan and enter the good land the LORD your God is giving you as your inheritance. 22 I will die in this land; I will not cross the Jordan; but you are about to cross over and take possession of that good land. 23 Be careful not to forget the covenant of the LORD your God that he made with you; do not make for yourselves an idol in the form of anything the LORD your God has forbidden. 24 For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.

[wagglebee]

If I am not a member of the Roman Catholic church, accepting it's doctrines as truths, how can I be saved from eternal damnation?

Your ignorance of Catholic teachings is glaring.

[Petronski]

The vast majority of Freeper protestants will respect the point of this thread and oppose Obama shoulder to shoulder with Catholics.

But a vanishingly-small minority of rogues seem happy—even proud—to choose the Catholic Church as a target in the face of onrushing fascism.

[wagglebee]

Rather ironic what their real priorities are.

[WVKayaker]

Well then, your ping makes everything fine. You win by being the "reasonable good guy" and inviting your "FRiends", who didn't respond. (/sarcasm)

Or maybe, they already know the truth that you don't see!

The Scripture is clear on where we all end up, even if you don't like it! An aborted baby's soul is no different to God, than Methuselah! If all have sinned, then all have come short of the "Glory of God". The penalty for sin is death and eternal separation from God. The only thing I can say to you is that" the truth will set you free". God will Judge as He wills.

Mark 7: 14 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15 Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' "

17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? 19 For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")

20 He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' 21 For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' "

[Dutchboy88]

There is only one Church and that is the Body of Jesus Christ comprised of every elected and rescued soul on earth and in heaven, irrespective of their nation or race. The members of this Body don’t have to explain those that speak error. We know that error is rampant.

OTOH, the Catholic church claims to be the one monolithic giant that holds sway to the “keys” to the kingdom and speaks as a single voice. I’m just pointing out that they have a rogue element that spits in their face.

And you are the one that said you didn’t want to discuss salvation and then began to argue it. Just odd logic.