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To: dalight
Actually, I disagree in part.

“Natural Born Citizen” is the OPPOSITE of “Naturalized Citizen”.

If you are a citizen at birth, you are a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN!

Congress has the power to set standards for citizenship.

The laws at the time Obama was born are the laws that count.

I do agree that the 14th Amendment is not helpful here. The 14th is INCLUSIVE and NOT Exclusive. It tells us that the people covered by the 14th ARE citizens, it clearly does NOT say that those who are not covered, directly, by the 14th, are NOT citizens.

148 posted on 08/08/2009 11:38:24 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Kansas58
If you are a citizen at birth, you are a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN!

I agree with you, but a whole bunch of people around here don't. To them there are three classes of US citizens:

1. Natural-born citizen at birth.

2.Citizen at birth but not natural-born.

3. Naturalized.

The criteria for #2 varies wildly between posters.

I've yet to see anything from US law or administrative decisions that would constitute proof category 2 exists. Those arguing for such a category usually fall back on quotes from an 18-century Swiss lawyer who was talking about civil law, not even the English common law on which the US legal system is based.

160 posted on 08/08/2009 11:54:07 PM PDT by Sherman Logan ("The price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections." Thomas Sowell)
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To: Kansas58
If you are a citizen at birth, you are a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN!

I am sorry you are wrong. The 14th Amendment was created and needed to define Citizenship by Birth vs. who needs to be naturalized. This is a wholely separate discussion than in Article II of the constitution which was intended to apply to an extreme select few individuals who might be placed in a position of supreme authority in our country. In this situation, the founding fathers went back to doctrine existing at that time, to define who would be elegible and they thought one of the most important criteria was undivided allegiance to the United States.

I could go into this in detail once again, but it will be like the 50th or 60th time. DO SOME RESEARCH before wagging your finger at folks.

Heck read the blinking article I cited where the Washington post goes into this without a single reference to the 14th Amendment because it just doesn't apply. They try to vague it up a bit, but there are great sources about this in the various threads here.

162 posted on 08/08/2009 11:57:58 PM PDT by dalight
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To: Kansas58
Congress has the power to set standards for citizenship.

Only naturalized citizenship. It's in the Constitution, you've heard of that I'm sure. Specifically Article I, Section 8 which reads in part;

The Congress shall have Power
...
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization

Nothing in section 8 or anywhere else about Congress setting standards for citizenship. The 14th amendment to the constitution does say that

Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

While Article II section 1 says in part

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President;

You may assume that "citizen at birth" is the same as "natural born citizen", but no Court has ruled on that subject, with regards to 14th amendment citizens at birth. Nor on exactly what "natural born citizen" might mean, well except for one case where a baby born in the US of Naturalized parents from Sweden, was declared a natural born citizen, even though when she was about 4 her mother took her to Sweden, joined later by her father, and they never returned to the US, although she did. However it was really only her citizenship was in question in the case. It was the DC Circuit that declared her natural born, while the Supreme Court upheld her citizenship, directing the Secretary of State to admit her and issue her a US Passport. Elg was her last name.

177 posted on 08/09/2009 12:15:59 AM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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