Help show what's wrong in Salon's "Birther FAQ"

Salon ^ | 8/5/09 | Alex Koppelman

[lonewacko_dot_com]

There are, sadly, a lot of Birthers out there. A recent poll showed that 11 percent of Americans -- including 28 percent of Republicans -- don't believe President Obama was born in the U.S. Another 12 percent aren't sure.

So, at some point, you're likely to find out that a friend or relative is a Birther. Your Uncle Floyd will forward you a chain e-mail that says Obama was actually born in Kenya and there's a Kenyan birth certificate that proves it and hundreds of government officials and reporters are in on a conspiracy to hide the truth of his ineligibility for the presidency from the public. And you will wonder: How can I possibly deal with all the falsehoods in this e-mail without disappearing down a rabbit hole?

Well, wonder no more. In the spirit of public service, Salon has compiled this list of the most popular Birther myths, along with all the debunking you could ever ask for. Now you can just e-mail this list to Uncle Floyd and get on with your life...

[MHGinTN]

They haven’t even addressed a long form. The Fukino statement referred to ‘vital records’ not any specific item in that record. Democrats have to lie and misstate in order to cover for their affirmative action bastard. You will see it repeatedly on this thread! Deceiving is the only way to cover for this liar-in-chief.

[SideoutFred]

Prove what?

[tsomer]

But the state of Hawaii has commented that he was born in Hawaii...

I'm the King of Siam (Oh yes I am.) The State of New Jersey would concur if I paid them enough.

[lonewacko_dot_com]

That’s false. The latest statement said he was born in HI. However, the 10/2008 statement only said he had a valid cert on file. The full text, link to the original document, and a picture of the 10/2008 statement is here:

http://24ahead.com/hawaii-department-health-103108-press-release-about-obama-bi

The only other statement that might qualify was something a spokeswoman said. However, she won’t repeat it now, she admits she’s not qualified to speak to whether he was born there, and she’s not a credible source in any case due to conflicting statements and not even being able to remember what she’s told other people.

[GunRunner]

Yeah, which makes it all the more odd that Obama won't release it.

There's obviously something in the long form that he doesn't want the public to see.

[MHGinTN]

You asserted: “But the state of Hawaii has commented that he was born in Hawaii....they’ve publicly stated it TWICE now.” Prove it, prove to us that the state of Hawaii has made such a definitive staement TWICE. Then, since you’ve got the rabbit hat, prove to us that the lying bastard was actually born in Hawaii ... and not use the proven forgery he posted first at KOS and Factcheck and his website.

[wintertime]

The Fukino statement referred to ‘vital records’ not any specific item in that record.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The two statements from Dr. Fukino are outstanding examples of circular argument both referring to “vital records” and the “vital records” could be anything or nothing ( who knows). Obama **himself** could have amended any of the “vital records”.

She reminds me of a Monty Python skit!

And...I am willing to bet my entire 401K plan that NO ONE since the dawn of our nation has ever had the words “natural born” written on their “vital records” or real birth certificate. The woman is deliberately obfuscating and misleading without actually lying.

[tsomer]

...we suffer as conservatives because more and more libs get into office due to more and more conservatives being painted as cranks for believing in this nonsense.

We'd suffer over something else if it weren't for this. We're the cranks, but they're conspiracy nuts are investigators.

Remember the Bush service records?

Remember the "October surprise?"

Remember what Sen. Byrd said: "It's the seriousness of the charge."

I did ignore this thing. Gave it no mind. But what is keeping it alive? It's the repeated attacks on the "Birthers" by the libs that awakes my interest: as Will Shakespeare said: "Methinks thou doth protest too loudly..." (I mean this of them.) Why are they so worked up about a bunch of "cranks?"

[wintertime]

But the state of Hawaii has commented that he was born in Hawaii....they’ve publicly stated it TWICE now.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

An honest and forthright man considered it an **honor** to provide **all** relevant documentation to prove that he is a natural born citizen.

So?...I conclude that Obama is dishonorable and dishonest.

[MHGinTN]

I’m tempted to do to this piece of Obama propaganda deceit what we did to the Taranto piece of deceit, go point by point and highlight why it is fifth column deceit not fourth estate clarification.

[MHGinTN]

Koppelman actually complains in the end about someone asking for the affirmative action bastard to release the necessary documents to allow the people to know whom the hell this lying little half-black nettle really is!

[Pale]

Listen steve-o, I've followed your drivel on Birther threads and evo threads, and I have just one piece of advice:

Don't pretend that just any any fool can fake a Kenyan birth certificate.

:)

[Pale]

The State of New Jersey would concur if I paid them enough.

So the entire state of Hawaii--or, at least, the entire state government--is complicit in this conspiracy?

[WhiskeyX]

That is a ridiculously false argument. The Law of Nations prohibits such a scenario by limiting recognition of citizenship to circumstances in which jus sanguinnis and/or jus soli exist in fact.

No person who is born with an allegiance to a foreign sovereign may serve as Commader-in-Chief and President of the United States. Barack Hussein Obama Jr. has publicly acknowledged he was born with an allegiance to the Sovereign of the United Kingdom of Great Britain. The Founding Fathers explicitly excluded such a person from being eligible to serve as Commader-in-Chief and President of the United States when they debated the inclusion of the natural born citizen phrase in the Constitution. Until an Amendment to the Constitution lawfully changes the intent of the Founding Fathers to exclude persons with allegiance to a foreign sovereign by removing the natural born citizen phrase used to implement the exclusion, no person may lawfully serve as Commander-in-Chief or President of the United States who was born with allegiance to a foreign sovereign.

[Pale]

There's obviously something in the long form that he doesn't want the public to see.

Or maybe he just relishes the idea of conservatives--a sizable portion at least--running around making horses' @sses of themselves for four years. Make that eight years.

[wintertime]

So the entire state of Hawaii—or, at least, the entire state government—is complicit in this conspiracy?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is a strawman. How can anyone defend a strawman argument of **your** creation?

Pale,...Using strawmen arguments might work in a private conversation. You might even frustrate your Constitution defending debating partner to the point that he might walk away. You might falsely believe that you “won” the debate.

Ah! But...This is the Internet. That doesn't work here. Your words, and your strawmen arguments, stand for all to see and judge.

[wintertime]

So?....What is so silly about asking for a **real** birth certificate?

What is rational about spending nearly a million dollars in attorney time trying to hide it?

[GunRunner]

That’s possible too; keep people running around chasing ghosts to distract them from his real machinations.

[lonewacko_dot_com]

Their certainly seems to be a very strong “native son” component to the coverage he’s gotten, and in my experience those in HI I’ve talked to are a bit “laid back” about that whole “issue a definitive statement and tell the whole truth” thing.

And, I’ve been trying for a couple weeks to get the Hawaiian governor’s office to confirm that she never verified he was born there, without any luck. I’ve sent three emails and left two voice mail messages.

Since I don’t have all day for this, it would be great if others could try to get someone on the phone about this:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2307383/posts

Now, that doesn’t mean an organized conspiracy, but I haven’t seen anyone in HI who’s an Obama opponent such as Palin has in AK.

[Pale]

No person who is born with an allegiance to a foreign sovereign may serve as Commader-in-Chief and President of the United States.

Interesting. Particularly since Section 1 of Article Two reads as follows: "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

I thought *we* were supposed to be the strict constructionists? I thought *we* were supposed to limit interpretation of the Constitution and only apply it *as written*? Seems like there's been a few stories about that in the past decade or two.

With Dems in control of Congress and the executive branch, and the polling numbers being what they are, they're going to paint any strong opposition as right-wing nutjobbery. WHY MAKE IT SO EASY FOR THEM???