Posted on 07/18/2009 11:30:17 AM PDT by Jim Robinson
Edited on 07/18/2009 11:48:33 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
Dont be cute. On this thread are descriptions and statements - See #112, #128 " I think what is better his a "marshalling of forces" in the form of a "national militia". A full time paramilitary organization that had both full-time and part-time participants, including its own internal "court system" and intelligence apparatus. An organization that trains and plans on both the tactical and strategic level, while constructively engaging the US military whenever and where ever possible. " #758 "There will be no going back without bloodshed." #98 "This would clearly be an excuse for some throughout the nation to begin the rioting—in other words, LOOTING—which is traditional for those who have spent their lives wanting something for nothing. Looters would have to be shot on sight."
There is also the clear analogy with the Revolution, where it took the death of thousands in the Revolutionary War to wrest control from King George. Either YES we are at that point or NO we are not. I say NO, we are not at that point, and it is extremist to say we are.
"And, I fully support the idea of compelling the resignations of nearly every congressional rep, the VP, and the Resident while we're there"
Asking? Fine. Compelling? And when you make that call and they say "NO! GO AWAY!" or just ignore you and bring DC police in, What will you do? Will you go away peaceably or get violent? (see above)
"They are in a high state of TREASON to our country and to our people. "
Treason is very specifically defined in the Constitution. If you got the goods, explain it. So far nobody has made that case. Imposing higher taxes and Big Government may be stupid and wrong, going on apology tours may be bad for our national security, and giving ACORN money may be corrupt and vile, but none of it falls under the definition of treason in the Constitution. We have a bad President, but just because he's a bad President doesnt make it treason. Jimmy Carter, LBJ and FDR were bad too. We survived. Youve got the goods or you are just bloviating rhetoric.
"The time for your sort of physical fighting back passed at least four generations ago.
What an incredibly naive and idiotic statement.
Funny, I'd say exactly that about your response.
"You say that with such righteous puffery, while good men are putting their lives on the line for your worthless hide, halfway around the world."
Wow, you really are unhinged. Now you are engaging in the false rhetoric of displacement. You know perfectly well that I am speaking of violence and revolutionary/extra-legal acts WITHIN our system of Government, and not against foreign enemies. The issue and discussion is the unwarranted and unwise call to depose outside of an election the elected officials who are currently running our Government. You see, I really love and respect our men and women in uniform who are protecting our nation. One of the great things about our military is an unbroken record of support of the existing Government and Constitution. We have rarely if ever had to fear our own military in our own country, a blessing indeed. The exception was when a bunch of foolhardy blowhards thought it was a good idea to secede when they didnt like the outcome of the 1860 election. Lesson: Foolhardy blowhardism is no way to run your politics and can end very badly.
Surely we deserve better than Reid, Pelosi and other clowns in power. But calling for a coup d'etat against them is ... what's that word you used - oh yes, Stuck on Stupid.
"They should step down, or be forced down."
So much for your "I haven't said a word about threatening anyone with violence" BS ... "Forced"? Really?!? You and whose army?
If you think it takes violence to achieve that, then you're simply dubbing in your own imaginings. ...
how do you force them down if not via violence or threat of violence? Flinging monkey poo at them? Staring contest? Botox Pelosi will beat you at that for sure. I am so glad you think it wont take violence, but you might want to check with some of the other folks on this thread who have other 'imaginings' they are dubbing in to this.
Oh, I know, there wont be real violence. But neither will there be anything approaching any change in who is in Congress or in the White House. Right now. After 912 march happens, Obama will still be President and Pelosi will still be speaker - UNTIL THE NEXT ELECTION. To suggest and propose otherwise is a pipe-dream diversion, and believing that its worth pursuing is just extremist blowhardism of folks who have more lofty intentions and strong emotions than strategic thinking and logical thought.
The RIGHT way to do this is to stay away from unhinged and extremist calls to go outside the law, insist on a peaceful protest and do it the way the leftists do it: Surround the Congress and have a "SIT IN". Dont go away until they give in to your demands. And I listed the 5 demands, which are nothing more than the 5 things the TEA Party protests have protested.
“You make a good point. All dictatorships that I can think of where triggered by someone taking power in the event of a crisis. They need a crisis to happen for the people to be willing to give up freedom. IMHO, that’s why we need to go to the people, not to DC. “
Another EXCELLENT REASON to make sure any march is 100% peaceful and 100% law-abiding. THere is no crisis except the crisis of lack of good leadership. Dont give Obama his “Reichstag fire” moment. They are ready to find excuses to spring Fairness Doctrine on us.
I like this plan. I have one question: What about our troops in harms way? With upheavel here, our enemies would no doubt take that time to capture/kill/etc our military members. Has any one got any ideas about protecting them?
That was my point to you sir. You have no idea who you are bashing with your attack on me. Nothing I said was boasting. If you want to know more, we can go to Freepmail.
"My argument with you, is that you're taking one item out of Jim Rob's proposal, blowing it out of all proportion and reality, and expanding it into an argument against his whole agenda."
Ahem. My argument is against the item, not the agenda. I already told him and others - if you want to make all these changes within the laws and Constitution, fine, be my guest. But calling the call for removal of people from office NOW is outside the law. Dont got there. Calling that a small item is itself a distortion. For goshsakes, get a clue, calling for removal of duly elected public officials is an action outside the law and Constitution. Calling it 'one item' is like a "other than that, how was the show, Mrs Lincoln?" statement. Dont be clueless or cute.
"You appear to be attempting to usurp his entire proposal to substitute one of your own."
My proposal is just a summation of what TEA Party folks have been saying all year.
"Jim Rob asked for constructive help in refining his basic concepts for this one major activist event."
Which is what I gave. my constructive criticism is to stay 100% within the law, make sure this is 100% peaceful and lawabiding and do nothing and propose nothing that goes outside the law or Consitution. If you love the Constitution, abide by it. That is the sum of my constructive criticism.
If there are one million patriotic taxpaying American citizens who peacefully protest the loss of freedom and the bankrupting of our treasury on September 12, and through this protest alert America to how wrong the Obama agenda is, and help stop it, it will be a huge success.
“I believe that expecting that there will be elections, as usual, in the future may be unrealistic.”
I heard the same nonsense after the 1984 elections from a college room-mate who was sure that the re-election of Ronald Reagan meant the end of democracy in America.
I believe that real American patriots have more faith in our over 200-year-old system of Government than to think it will all collapse just because the wrong people got elected.
You’re right and I apologize. It’s just that some other more bellicose posters have used it. This is supposed to be a non-violent thing, but that quote means literal bloodshed.
If the tone of the thread is the tone of the movement, I’m out.
There are some great people here, but I’m uncomfortable now.
You said:
“The Founding Fathers thought tar-and-feathers were a perfectly reasonable starting point. Today, we’re too scared to even go that far. “
Then you said:
“Nothing I wrote advocated such behavior.”
Are you advocating tar-and-feathers, or do you agree that we should NOT go that far and that violence against anyone in America is WRONG?
“I merely observed the impotence of what didn’t work before and won’t work again.”
Maybe a lecture on the impotence of violence in recent decades is in order as well then. Don’t you agree?
This is not treason.
It's the implication and invocation of the Constitution of the United States of America.
“The 0bama administration, and the larger part of the Democrat Party doesn’t seem to give a damn what Americans want.”
Not quite true. Like all politicians, their #1 concern is getting re-elected. We cant change Obama without defeating him in 2012, but we can get Senators and Congresscritters to react by putting heat on them. It’s how immigration amnesty was derailed in 2007. We still need to defeat Democrats in 2010 to get rid of Pelosi as speaker but in the meantime, citizen unrest will help.
“I’m not going to give you my ‘resume’, but I’m doing vastly more than most half-conscious Americans are doing.” That’s fine. Just understand that I’m in the same boat/category.
“Socialized medicine will give them a huge boost in reaching the others. In fact, I believe that if they get health care it’s checkmate.”
I agree, which is why the SMART thing for us on the side of liberty to do is to FOCUS on making that our #1 target for activism.
That’s why the ObamaCare protests are so great. They are having an effect. Polls are shifting. The Dems knew this up front and so they wanted to rush to get something passed.
If we can stop the ObamaCare vote from happening in August, and then followup with the 912 march, It could derail ObamaCare completely.
Smart activists have set realistic and unifying goals. Stopping ObamaCare is a realistic and unifying goal for Tea Party, Freepers, Republicans, and others opposed to Obama’s socialism. It’s the Big Enchilada right now. If it passes, Obama has in effect deep sixed our healthcare, our freedom, our Federal budget, state rights, patients rights, doctors and healthcare innovation, all in one fell swoop.
OTOH stopping that could stop Obama’s agenda in his tracks.
I totally agree(post 775). If we use the same peaceful techniques the left has successfully used we take away one weapon the media is sure to use against us.
A massive sit-in would be great! Bring the tents and camp out on the mall.
Then you should have made that clear.
Putting "all" or another qualifier in the "to" window would clarify that.
Otherwise it served the purpose of putting words into Robinson's mouth that did not in any way express his thoughts or what he is proposing.
Just what the progressive leftists and enemies of America are looking for on this site.
"The 2nd Paragraph Movement".
We know you have proposed a PEACEFUL march, Jim! But there seem to be some who are doing their best to turn law biding Freepers away from going to DC for our peaceful Tea Party.
Let's examine those who are choosing to advocate any form of violence. Are they members in good standing? Do they donate to Free Republic? Do they donate to our TroopAThons? Are they really trolls who are trying to give the MSM comments to run with to trash FR?
WE LAW BIDING FREEPER PATRIOTS NEED TO STOP THOSE NEGATIVE POSTERS IN THEIR TRACKS AND TELL THEM TO LEAVE FREE REPUBLIC!
Oh, where to begin! :-)
1. You prove my point. That which was deemed a harmless expression of dissatisfaction is now deemed unthinkably horrible.
2. Merely observing what constituted a “perfectly reasonable starting point” in no way equates to advocating going too far.
3. Apparently all is impotence with you. May chains rest lightly...
My 9 year old granddaughter and I are anticipating a peaceful protest.
We are not going to be involved in any violence. This is just what the MSM is praying for; they are licking their chops in anticipation of the chance to destroy FR.
I suggest that we report anyone, including FReepers, that show up with guns. This is not acceptable!
The American Revolution (1770's) wasn't started by the military. But the American military certainly finished it.
“An interim provisional Chief Executive and congressional representatives will be established as follows:
The Secretary of State shall immediately assume the office of interim Chief Executive. The Chief Executive shall appoint and the interim Senate shall confirm an interim Vice President.”
You do realize you are calling for installing Hillary as interim President don’t you?
“Oh, where to begin! :-)”
Uh, how about start by answering my questions.
Slavery wasnt unthinkable then and is now. Why is tar-and-feathering any different? So what if our founders had to get violent to win freedom. They lived under a king and we live in a democratic Republic. Big diff. What do you advocate we do NOW?
Of course. She’s 4th in line of constitutional succession to the presidency and we just fired the 1st, 2nd and 3rd: Biden, Pelosi and Byrd. I looked it up on wikipedia.
Other than that she’s twice the man Obama is and will delight in taking out the Obama trash!
Hell hath no fury like Hillary scorned!
God works in mysterious ways.
I like the way you think!
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