San Francisco in the early days wasn't for wimps.
Posted on 07/11/2009 8:48:27 AM PDT by marktwain
BELEN, N.M. (KRQE) - The debate engulfing Belen since Luke Sanchez was arrested for killing a suspected burglar Saturday is whether he was protecting the community or acting as a vigilante.
Sanchez, 38, was arrest after a confrontation outside Enchantment Propane business led to the shooting death of Gary Gabaldón Saturday night. Gabaldón has a history of violent crimes, and Sanchez told police he acting in self-defense.
Sanchez said he was out buying fireworks when he saw Gabaldón and another man looking suspicious outside the business. While on the phone with 911 he said Gabaldón attacked him leaving him no choice but to shoot.
Later in the day numerous Belen residents told KRQE News 13 they believe Sanchez's claim of self-defense. His neighbors said they believe he is a hero, and some went to a Belen bank Tuesday to set up a legal defense fund on his behalf.
"I think he should have been given an award rather than of charges," Don McConnell, one of those establishing the fund, said. "He was chasing crooks out of here.
"Luke has been involved in solving some of the crimes around, and he's just a neighborhood good guy."
"I think its self-defense," added Susie Orozco. "There's just been too many robberies, and people are just scared."
Still a handful of people characterized Sanchez and a vigilante who should be charged with murder.
"I think maybe he should have just shot him to wound him, maybe in the butt or something," Ken Major said. "I don't think he should have shot him to kill him."
A memorial for Gabaldón has been set up at the site of the shooting.
The Valencia County district attorney said it will be up to a grand jury to determine if Sanchez should be indicted for murder or some other charge.
“Hero” is my vote.
FTA: ‘Gabaldón has a history of violent crimes...’
Good riddance to a zit on the ass of society. Many thanks to the Marine for taking out the trash.
Kinda hard to shoot someone in the butt when he's pounding you in the face through your car window.
"I think maybe he should have just shot him to wound him, maybe in the butt or something," Ken Major said. "I don't think he should have shot him to kill him."
So ONE village idiot who has not the slightest hint of a clue about self-defense against violent attackers, as evidenced by his staggeringly stupid statement, counts as a "handful" and means that the "town" is "divided?"
Were I on the grand jury I would not vote to indict.
Were I on the jury I would not convict.
Then I would go after the D.A.s career.
> “I think maybe he should have just shot him to wound him, maybe in the butt or something,”
Anyone who shoots to wound is an idiot.
It’s your word against his. Any there’s nothing worse than going up against a cripple in court.
Someone once said that it’s better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
Anyone who “shoots to kill” is also an idiot.
You shoot, if you are forced to, in order to STOP the attack, no more and no less.
“Anyone who “shoots to kill” is also an idiot.
You shoot, if you are forced to, in order to STOP the attack, no more and no less.”
Where did you come up with that crap?
Everything I have ever been trained to do starts with aiming at center mass. Period! Any well aimed round at center mass will be fatal at least 90% of the time.
“You shoot, if you are forced to, in order to STOP the attack, no more and no less.”
That’s basically what it come down to and nothing say “cease and desist” like 200 grains at 1000+ fps to the chest.
I will also rely on people like Elmer Keith for advice on self defense, not some bystander quoted in a newspaper. I have also noticed that vigilante is becoming a very misused word.
That has got to be one of the STUPIDEST things I've ever read in my life.
You shoot to stop the threat. In a split second decision, aim center mass. There is no time to be cute and aim for the ass, leg, etc.
Now if this story is as it sounds, I would not only not indict, but I would be taking out recall petitions against the DA's office.
LOL
In this case the Marine used a Colt 380auto.
This Marine has been in the news in the past —
In April, two men broke into his friend’s home, and Sanchez spotted them fleeing law enforcement. They escaped.
The next day, he spotted the same two men walking along a nearby ditchbank and recognized them.
He then called 911 and held the two men at gunpoint until deputies arrived, Rivera said. The sheriff said the two apparently returned to the ditchbank to retrieve stolen items.
No one was injured in that case, and the burglary suspects were taken into custody without incident. One was eventually charged with burglary.
“We’re always looking for the help of the public,” Rivera said. “But the one thing I tell the public is not to jeopardize their own safety to try to help law enforcement.”
THe ‘held the two men at gunpoint’ will not help him on e bit.
FWIW, this Marine was an MP while AD - likely better trained some of the local LEOs.
“I have also noticed that vigilante is becoming a very misused word.”
The vigilance committee originated in San Francisco during the Barbary Coast era in response to street gangs (including an Australian street gang, I kid you not) running wild and a corrupt city government that took the side of the gangs. Prominant citizens were forced to take the law into their own hands to preserve their lives and property - and they did.
The vigilante is created by corrupt government and law enforcement that isn’t doing its job. Everyone else is a common criminal.
But you knew all this and I’m sorry, I don’t mean to lecture, but the story of the Barbary Coast is a facinating bit of American history complete with grizzled miners, shanghaied sailors, burning cities with gangs looting ahead of the flames, robbery, lechery and debauchery on a biblical scale!
See, there I go again.
New Hampshire's Massad Ayoob (International Director of Police Firearms Training, Defensive Tactics Institute, 1980-82; Special Instructor, Chapman Academy, 1981-88; Assistant Professor teaching weapons and Chemical Agents, Advanced Police Training Program of New Hampshire 1974-77; Special Instructor, NH Institute of Karate; Feature lecturer, Missouri Police Shooting State Championships and Seminar, 1983-88; International Instructor Staff, PR-24 police baton training program; National Chairman, committee on police firearms training, American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers (ASLET), 1987-present; Co-instructor (with former world combat pistol champion Ray Chapman) of Advanced Officer Survival Seminars conducted nationwide through Police Marksman Association; Lecturer and coordinator, first state ASLET seminar (New Hampshire, 1988); Guest lecture experience includes Second Chance Officer Survival Seminar 1980-85; Smith & Wesson Academy Instructors’ update; Metro-Dade Police Academy (use of deadly force, unarmed combat and arrest tactics, officer survival); Ordnance Expo., Los Angeles 1983-84; New England SWAT Seminar; ASLET NATIONAL SEMINARS (knife/counterknife; plainclothes/off-duty encounter management; forensic aspects of gunshot/knife/bludgeon wounds); Regional International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors Seminars, New York (ammunition selection) and Switzerland (dynamics of violent encounters); McGill Univ. School of Medicine, Royal Victoria teaching hospital (wound dynamics, knife and gunshot), 1988; International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors (aftermath management in police shootings), National Conference, 1988; Lecturer, National Tactical Invitational, Gunsite Training Center, 1995) is where I came up with that "crap."
Therefore, the job of the bullet he launches is instant incapacitation.This may cause death. When you get into it deep enough, you realize that the righteous combatant does not shoot to kill, he shoots to stop. A mortal wound is not enough. Many an American soldier who was mortally wounded went on to kill so many of the enemy before he ran out of blood and died that the majority of those on the sacred list who won the Congressional Medal of Honor won it posthumously. Every combat soldier who fought in heavy battle can tell you stories of enemy soldiers who, wounded unto death, still took one or more Americans with them. These men had been killed, but not stopped.
The reason you aim at center mass is not "to kill," it is because it is the largest surface area of your attacker, and therefore what you are most likely to hit when reacting in an incredibly high-stress situation.
If you, God forbid, are ever forced to use deadly force to defend your life when there's no other choice and no possible escape, imagine your "shoot to kill," "dead men don't talk" post above being dramatically read to the jury by a prosecutor relishing the chance to put you away for first-degree murder.
You may not mind going in front of a jury with the words "shoot to kill" swirling around you in a hostile and vicious left-wing criminal-coddling press, but I sure as heck mind. God willing, I'll never have to defend my own or another's life by shooting someone, and it'll be a moot point.
Every single class in firearms will tell you to shoot until the threat is over. Not a second beyond that.
Don’t believe me? Copy what I just wrote and call any firearms instructor. They will tell you the exact same thing word for word.
Every single firearms instructor is taught to instruct their students not only on how to stay alive but also to stay out of court.
The DA is backpedaling pretty fast, having said some stupid stuff on record. The support for Sanchez is running about 8 to 2 for (anecdotally), and he’s a real stand up guy (One of the salesmen at my local gun store knows him).
Family ties trump the law down there, and it’s known that the DA is pretty tight with the Gabaldon’s (that’s why the dead perp has gotten off lightly in the past). But with a couple hours local radio talk show coverage a day for the last week, the light is shining on the whole rotten bunch. My guess is that the fix is in, there will not “be enough” evidence and it will be dismissed. Having failed to use his office, the DA will let it get sorted out “unofficially” by the remaining Gabaldons.
Luke will still have to watch his back for a long time.
San Francisco in the early days wasn't for wimps.
Ever been in a fire fight? Guess that was a stupid question.
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