Thanks, that was an interesting (and thought-provoking) read.
I agree. Penn is a nut.
I love his show, “Bullshit!” and I agree with much of what he says.
However, even when I don’t agree, at least I can give him credit for the intellectual honesty of his arguments.
People try to argue that government isn’t really force. You believe that? Try not paying your taxes. (This is only a thought experiment though -- suggesting someone not pay their taxes is probably a federal offense, and while I may be a nut, I’m not crazy.) When they come to get you for not paying your taxes, try not going to court. Guns will be drawn. Government is force.
And those parts of government where the fact that government is about force and violence is openly admitted are the most effective parts of government (like the military) while the parts where they try to hide the inherent violence of government behind a smiley face are the least effective parts (like just about any welfare program).
Nice words.
Lets see if backs them with any actions.
I start with the Declaration of Independence: “Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.”
He left out the first part: “That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.”
So, essentially our government does what they do with my consent.
No. You’re not the king. Essentially, “our government does what they do with” the consent of the governed (Supposedly at least). “The governed” is not just you, it’s a lot of us and sometimes we disagree on what the government is to do. When that happens, we vote, compromise, come to consensus etc after which “our government does what they do with the consent of the governed”. (And if we can’t come to some agreement on what should have our consent, the government should do nothing.) Of course, not everybody is satisfied with the outcome in all cases.
So, the way I figure, it’s not okay for our government to use force in any situation where I personally wouldn’t use force.
Again, you’re not the king. You might be overruled by the rest of “the governed” regarding what the government has consent to do.
I’m even okay with using force to enforce voluntary contracts.
The fact that the majority wants something good does not give them the right to use force on the minority that don’t want to pay for it.
So, if the governed came to an agreement (voluntary contract) to institute government to secure rights, and the majority of the governed wanted to consent to a particular government action (“something good”) within the terms of the agreement (voluntary contract) which of the following is true::
1. It would be okay to use force to enforce the agreement (voluntary contract) except that the fact that the majority wants something good does not give them the right to use force on the minority therefore it would not be okay to use force to enforce the agreement (voluntary contract).
2. The fact that the majority wants something good does not give them the right to use force on the minority except that it would be okay to use force to enforce the agreement (voluntary contract) therefore the fact that the majority wants something good within the terms of the agreement (voluntary contract) does give them the right to use force on the minority.
So it's YOUR fault that Obama is our President! A vote for anyone other than a Republican is just another automatic vote for the Dims! If only you had voted for McCain, then we would have a CONSERVATIVE in the White House! < / sarc>
Things don't change much for the Libertarian Party, here is the 1990 Libertarian Party Platform on immigration and the 2004 Libertarian Party Platform on immigration.
17. IMMIGRATION, 1990 Party Platform:
We hold that human rights should not be denied or abridged on the basis of nationality. We condemn massive roundups of Hispanic Americans and others by the federal government in its hunt for individuals not possessing required government documents. We strongly oppose all measures that punish employers who hire undocumented workers. Such measures repress free enterprise, harass workers, and systematically discourage employers from hiring Hispanics.
Undocumented non-citizens should not be denied the fundamental freedom to labor and to move about unmolested. Furthermore, immigration must not be restricted for reasons of race, religion, political creed, age, or sexual preference.
We therefore call for the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally. We oppose government welfare payments to non-citizens just as we oppose government welfare payments to all other persons.
Because we support the right of workers to cross borders without harassment, we oppose all government-mandated "temporary worker" plans. Specifically, we condemn attempts to revive the Bracero Program as government imposition of second-class status on Mexican-born workers.
We welcome all refugees to our shores and condemn the efforts of U.S. officials to create a new "Berlin Wall" which would keep them captive. We condemn the U.S. government's policy of barring those refugees from our shores and preventing Americans from assisting their passage to help them escape tyranny or improve their economic prospects.
Immigration, 2004 Party Platform:
The Issue: We welcome all refugees to our country and condemn the efforts of U.S. officials to create a new "Berlin Wall" which would keep them captive. We condemn the U.S. government's policy of barring those refugees from our country and preventing Americans from assisting their passage to help them escape tyranny or improve their economic prospects.
The Principle: We hold that human rights should not be denied or abridged on the basis of nationality. Undocumented non-citizens should not be denied the fundamental freedom to labor and to move about unmolested. Furthermore, immigration must not be restricted for reasons of race, religion, political creed, age or sexual preference. We oppose government welfare and resettlement payments to non-citizens just as we oppose government welfare payments to all other persons.
Solutions: We condemn massive roundups of Hispanic Americans and others by the federal government in its hunt for individuals not possessing required government documents. We strongly oppose all measures that punish employers who hire undocumented workers. Such measures repress free enterprise, harass workers, and systematically discourage employers from hiring Hispanics.
Transitional Action: We call for the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally.
Republicans hate libertarians because both are competing for the same public. This is similar to the way Fascists and Communists hate each other, various religions hate each other, etc etc. I find it doubly amusing that Republicans use the same “They’re crazy” argument against libertarians that Democrats like to use against their opponents. In fact the unhinged screed you tend to see on the FR against libertarians is virtually identical to the unhinged screeds you see on the DU or moveon.org against conservatives.
Republicans and Democrats are both totalitarians who believe in the massive use of govt force to achieve whatever their aims are for the moment. Both are Big Govt organizations, though the Republicans from time to time put on an outward show of seeking smaller govt. They never actually do anything about it. Even Reagan never did much to slow the juggernaut of the erosion of freedom and independence. Over the last 8 years the Republican Party proved itself beyond doubt to be a big spending Party on the road to ruin, maybe not as quickly as the Democrats but every bit as surely.
I fear for the Republic. There is currently no organized movement capable of reversing the road to perdition we are currently traveling down. Whether we up end up in a Republican bankruptcy and police state or a Democrat bankruptcy and police state we end up in the same place.
The refreshing thing about Penn is that he’s candid about being both libertarian and bugBLEEP crazy.
Penn may be a nut, but he’s my kind of nut.