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Two sides to violence
Asia Times ^ | 6/27/2009 | Ira Chernus

Posted on 06/28/2009 1:08:35 AM PDT by bruinbirdman

Recent polls reveal that nearly half the American public is unsure that Israel is still the good guy in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The eroding support for Israeli policies signals a growing appetite for a new, more even-handed narrative. What must be understood is that the crucial conflict is not between Israel and Palestine. It's between peace and violence.

The Israel Project hired pollster Stanley Greenberg to test American opinion on the Middle East conflict - and got a big surprise. In September 2008, 69% of Americans called themselves pro-Israel. Now, it's only 49%. In September, the same 69% wanted the United States to side with Israel; now, only 44%.

How to explain this dramatic shift? Greenberg himself suggested the answer years ago when he pointed out that, in politics, "a narrative is the key to everything". Last year the old narrative about the Middle East conflict was still dominant: Israel is an innocent victim, doing only what it must do to defend itself against the Palestinians. Today, that narrative is beginning to lose its grip on Americans.

Well, to be more precise, the first part of the old narrative is eroding. Nearly half the American public seems unsure that Israel is still the good guy in the Middle East showdown. But the popular image of the Palestinians as the violent bad guy is apparently as potent as ever. The number of Americans who say they support Palestine remains unchanged from last September, a mere 7%. And only 5% want the US government to take such a position.

Those numbers reflect the narrative that President Barack Obama recited in Cairo on June 4. He chided the Israelis for a few things they are doing wrong - like expanding settlements and blockading Gaza. To the other side, though, his message was far

(Excerpt) Read more at atimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 06/28/2009 1:08:36 AM PDT by bruinbirdman
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To: bruinbirdman

Barf alert missing?


2 posted on 06/28/2009 1:15:26 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Don't blame me -- I use Linux.)
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To: bruinbirdman

Chemus doesn’t even bother to get as graphic about Pallie attacks as he does about alleged Israeli settler attacks. He talks in a vacuum about “occasional rockets” from Gaza as though they never went anywhere and worked any mayhem. And “suicide bombers” as if they exploded in the middle of the desert.


3 posted on 06/28/2009 1:19:17 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Don't blame me -- I use Linux.)
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To: bruinbirdman

Hmm..........hiring Stan Greenburg to poll this seems similar to hiring a trojan horse to represent you at the battlefront.


4 posted on 06/28/2009 1:21:45 AM PDT by bustinchops
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To: HiTech RedNeck
There should be more concern about the numbers today as compared with Sept. 2008.

"Those numbers reflect the narrative that President Barack Obama recited in Cairo on June 4."

President Hussein Obama the Islamist is succeeding in turning Americans against Israel?

yitbos

5 posted on 06/28/2009 1:25:54 AM PDT by bruinbirdman ("Those who control language control minds.")
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To: bruinbirdman
polls reveal that nearly half the American public is unsure that Israel is still the good guy in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Polls have two purposes. They are a propagandist's tool, they tell him if his work is having the desired effect, and help him to focus his efforts.

And they help to shape public opinion by convincing people that they are on the right side or the wrong side of a subject, because more and more every day people are starting to think "x".

And it makes for filler, fake information masquerading as news. We won't discuss whether Israel is or isn't in the right, we'll discuss what people feel about it. So inches of newsprint get filled without any real information having been communicated.

Is Israel's innocence a "narrative" to be replaced by another narrative? Propagandists think in terms of narratives because building them and knocking them down is all in a day's work for them. Israel is an outpost of civilization in an uncivilized world. The crucial conflict is between peace and violence, is it? Maybe, and the only peace you'll find in the middle east is the peace that exists behind Israel's well guarded borders. At the edges the blood begins, the chaos begins. The hate, the disfunction, the killing.

But no, the crucial conflict is not between peace and violence, it is between civilization and brutality. Civilization has to be defended philosophically and it has to be defended by force of arms. Its not a narrative. Its a principle.

6 posted on 06/28/2009 1:28:09 AM PDT by marron
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To: bruinbirdman

Propaganda, all crap. The Palestinians shell the Israeli towns trying to kill civilians almost daily, while the MSM whines about Israel arresting some terrorist.

Israel should Nuke Gaza and be done with it.


7 posted on 06/28/2009 1:28:35 AM PDT by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: bruinbirdman
President Hussein Obama the Islamist is succeeding in turning Americans against Israel?

Why yes... at least, dulling down the level of concern by speaking little of it. The whole feud over there is unimaginable to most Americans. It really is the third world and the first world cheek by jowl.

8 posted on 06/28/2009 1:39:32 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Don't blame me -- I use Linux.)
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To: bruinbirdman

“The eroding support for Israeli policies signals a growing appetite for a new, more even-handed narrative.”

Utter bullsh1t, as is this entire piece, and a sign of the idiot hand of the Hussein administration, which has very actively sought to promote Moslem interests, with the ample collusion of the Ministry of Propaganda which has occasionally been labeled the MSM. This, coupled with the fact that anti-Semitism, out of fashion after World War II, is once again not only acceptable, but tres chic.

There is, however, no honor among thieves - or Moslems - and the United States will find, to its regret, that the decline of our only reliable ally in the Middle East is yet another sign of the precipitous decline of American interests around the world under the current president.

This general decline in American interests and the American projection of power can only lead to an international power vacuum, which will certainly result in chaos sooner rather than later.

Bad times are here, with worse to come.


9 posted on 06/28/2009 1:54:55 AM PDT by Jack Hammer
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To: HiTech RedNeck
"speaking little of it"

The Obammunist's speech in Cairo spoke volums in favor of Mohammedism. Now he is speaking of a new embassy in Damascus. He wants settlements destroyed on the West Bank.

President Hussein al-Obama speaks in disrespect of U.S.A European allies who are outspoken in their support of Israel.

Perhaps Barak Hussein Obama has spoken a lot to change Americans attitudes towards Islam and away from Israel?

yitbos

10 posted on 06/28/2009 1:57:10 AM PDT by bruinbirdman ("Those who control language control minds.")
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To: bruinbirdman

I mean, he has spoken little of what Israel is suffering. Of Islamia and its woes real or imaginary, he has spoken voluminously.


11 posted on 06/28/2009 2:03:06 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Don't blame me -- I use Linux.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Agreed


12 posted on 06/28/2009 2:23:37 AM PDT by bruinbirdman ("Those who control language control minds.")
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To: bruinbirdman
The eroding support for Israeli policies signals a growing appetite for Satan rather than Jesus.


fixed

13 posted on 06/28/2009 2:38:20 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: bruinbirdman

Which yitbos do you subscibe to?


14 posted on 06/28/2009 2:39:08 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: bruinbirdman
In reality, unjustified violence is initiated on both sides - and if anyone insists on keeping score, Israel's violence, official and unofficial, outweighs the violence coming from the Palestinians...

And it's certainly true that there are incidents of individual Palestinians venting their frustration violently. After all, they've been living under an arbitrary, demeaning, and sometimes brutal occupation for 42 years...

In fact, though, Hamas rocket attacks had ended in July 2008 ...

It is hard for many of my fellow Jews to accept the painful truth that we are as capable of violence as the Palestinians, or anyone else. But this new narrative is gaining ground rapidly in the American Jewish community, where groups like J Street and Brit Tzedek v'Shalom are making well-organized efforts to promote it and act upon it.

It this guy really is a Jew, or anything other than an anti-Semitic fake whose goal is another Holocaust, then he should be ashamed of himself.

15 posted on 06/28/2009 2:57:06 AM PDT by TurtleUp (So this is how liberty dies - to thunderous applause!)
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To: bruinbirdman; HiTech RedNeck
Maybe y'all know, maybe you don't, but the Asia Times is a poor source for just about anything not with a moderate to heavy lib/anti-US slant. It hires out-of-work- Brits with drinking prob;ems and FOBs at a cheap rate. Results are as might be expected.
It also blatantly steals news off the wires and acts as a 'co-generator' or 'aggregator' then sourcing it out on their own subscriber wires.
Sometimes they get an item of note out and do a semi-respectable job. The office then sends out for food while setting the bottles on top of their desks for the rest of the afternoon.
16 posted on 06/28/2009 3:06:05 AM PDT by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus)
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To: American in Israel
I am in total agreement with you. (I read your bio) Israel should start pushing until all on the West Bank and Gaza are in Jordan or Egypt. There is no way to live side by side with Palestinians.
Obama is Israels worst nightmare.

How expensive was it to live in Israel?

17 posted on 06/28/2009 3:46:23 AM PDT by Recon Dad (Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum - MARSOC DAD)
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To: bruinbirdman

Recent polls reveal that nearly half the American public is unsure that Israel is still the good guy in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Meaningless.
Half of Americans thought that Obama was an American and was capable of being a American President.


18 posted on 06/28/2009 3:52:11 AM PDT by SECURE AMERICA (Coming to You From the Front Lines of Occupied America)
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To: bruinbirdman

This is nothing but Kenyan-International-Communistic-Chicago politician-Moose-Limb hogwash!


19 posted on 06/28/2009 6:35:14 AM PDT by RoadTest (I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6)
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To: Recon Dad

Pretty pricy, somewhere around 125% of a large American city. Food prices very high.


20 posted on 06/28/2009 3:55:43 PM PDT by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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