Posted on 06/09/2009 5:33:16 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
Wrong. It is you who want to use a “special” definition of creationism. I am using the definition you find in the dictionary.
Creationism: the doctrine that matter and all things were created, substantially as they now exist, by an omnipotent Creator, and not gradually evolved or developed.
All Christians believe the world was created by God. That doesn’t make all Christians creationists.
The Pope for example is not a creationist, but is most certainly a Christian.
“A Day to wait in ABSOLUTE ZERO!”The scripture does not say that the Earth was created without any heat.
The Scripture failed to say it was! If it’s not in there, then it’s not in there.
“The Scripture failed to say it was! If it’s not in there, then it’s not in there.”Oh no!
The “heat” starts with the arrival of the Sun. That occurs in the first creation story right after the arrival of the plants (who then spend the evening in total darkness ~ no Sun ~ on a cold planet without heat).
“The “heat” starts with the arrival of the Sun.” [excerpt]Does it actually say that the Sun gives heat in Genesis 1?
So, sticking to the schedule set forth in Genesis, one little sticky wicket at a time, the birds are already flying around BEFORE there are land animals. There's no where for them to land and lay eggs.
The mind can run rampant around that one of course.
BTW, one of the reasons to stick to the wickets in the most exacting manner is that this involves the FIRST SEVEN DAYS, and if you can't get them correct how you gonna' get the next 6000 years right? Fur Shur you don't want to be adding nonsense to the text about new fangled notions of scientific research, right?!
“If the behavior of the Sun were different at that time than it is now, I'm sure God would have called that to Moses attention like "Say, Moses, way back then, the Sun was so hot it didn't need to shine to make it so hot your sweat will never touch the ground".” [excerpt]Like in Genesis 8:22 where God mentions heat and cold for the first time...
“So, sticking to the schedule set forth in Genesis, one little sticky wicket at a time, the birds are already flying around BEFORE there are land animals. There's no where for them to land and lay eggs.” [excerpt]So the birds need land animals to land on to lay eggs?
“The mind can run rampant around that one of course.” [excerpt]Perhaps they landed on the beached aquatic mammals to lay their eggs and then quickly moved them to dry ground?
“BTW, one of the reasons to stick to the wickets in the most exacting manner is that this involves the FIRST SEVEN DAYS, and if you can't get them correct how you gonna' get the next 6000 years right?” [excerpt]Can you point out where heat or cold is explicitly mentioned in the first seven days?
“Fur Shur you don't want to be adding nonsense to the text about new fangled notions of scientific research, right?!” [excerpt]Hey, you are the one saying there was heat before its mentioned.
God could very well have used our modern terms of course (being omnipotent and omnipresent God can know these things).
“God's own shorthand ~ "light". Our word "heat" is merely a reference to a very low frequency light.” [excerpt]Now your just making stuff up!
“God could very well have used our modern terms of course (being omnipotent and omnipresent God can know these things).” [excerpt]Are you gonna play by your rules or not?
Apparantly Moses forgot to take notes on the other parts, like X-rays, ultraviolet, visible spectrum, etc.
Can't blame him though ~ lot of stuff to absorb in a short time.
“Apparantly Moses forgot to take notes on the other parts, like X-rays, ultraviolet, visible spectrum, etc.Then you can't rule out the Earth being warm from the beginning.
Can't blame him though ~ lot of stuff to absorb in a short time.” [excerpt]
We are allowed to "know what we know now" and reflect on those same things when they occur in Genesis, but we can't change the order in which they appear.
That would CHANGE THE TIMELINE of the FIRST SEVEN DAYS.
“Adam was created AFTER the plants and AFTER the Sun.” [excerpt]But Genesis 1 doesn't explicitly say the dirt was warm yet.
“The problem here is that with the plants created BEFORE the Sun, and absent a local "light source" (Sun, Moon, created next day) knowing what we now know about "light", the plants would have been doggone cold.” [excerpt]So how long did the oceans take to melt?
“We are allowed to "know what we know now" and reflect on those same things when they occur in Genesis, but we can't change the order in which they appear.” [excerpt]Hehe, yeah, that'll go real far.
“That would CHANGE THE TIMELINE of the FIRST SEVEN DAYS.” [excerpt]If the oceans were 0 degrees Kelvin on day 2, and on day 4 the Sun was made, and then on day 6 Adam was made at which point the oceans were, say, 60 degrees Fahrenheit (288 Kelvin), then logically on day 9, the
Sure, they had volcanoes around, but they don't hold a candle to the real stuff.
A number of writers have tried their hand at creating "world ships" (great vessels that travel between the stars) that meet the requirements set forth in Genesis.
They keep running up against the problem of "the sequence" ~ really hard to deal with it.
Personally I think Moses lifted these stories from existing documents and tablets he had right there in Egypt ~ plus, he prayed a lot ~ plus, he had visions ~ plus he wasn't a very good astronomer, nor geologist, and he had no idea about the fact he was living in an interglacial during a very large and long Ice Age.
Otherwise he'd taken better notes.
Eventually we'll find the tablets he used, or ones like them, that have "versions" of these stories that are very close to the Hebrew traditions. Father Abraham, came from the part of the world where writing was invented. Must have blown Moses mind when he came across some of the old stuff the Hebrews were hauling around.
So you’re saying that the Earth was probably created warm?
Finally, the Sun toked up, blew with an enormous solar wind for millions of years, and stripped the Earth of its gaseous envelope.
One of the last acts before "life" seems to have been the iron catastrophe, where virtually all the iron and heavier metals SANK to the center.
Place started cooling down after that with the lighter metals such as calcium and sodium radiating away surface heat.
I've always been intrigued that the "face of the deep" and "formless" appear in Genesis and are yet satisfactory descriptors for a large gas giant planet like Uranus or Neptune, or early Earth. Tells me there's more to those stories than mere guesswork ~ that behind them there's "intelligence" that is trying to impart important information to us but at a remove in time that makes Moses seem more like a local boy from New Jersey.
“Not really.” [excerpt]Um, hot potato meet cold feet?
The whole thing precipitated out of a cold cloud of gas which was made hot by gravity. We presently live on one of the larger clumps.
But back on the 6000 YEC proposal, it doesn't work and it leaves too many questions unanswered.
The timeline is certainly in error or God changed the characteristics of "light" somewhere in the middle of the Creation.
The YECers know that too. That's why their leadership takes pains to try to discredit the idea that gas can be compressed into a liquid and/or solid.
“But back on the 6000 YEC proposal, it doesn't work and it leaves too many questions unanswered.” [excerpt]Actually, what we were discussing was irrelevant to the overall age of the Earth.
“The timeline is certainly in error or God changed the characteristics of "light" somewhere in the middle of the Creation.” [excerpt]An exegetical interpretation of the Genesis timeline is fine.
“The YECers know that too.” [excerpt]Just because you cook the books to break the Genesis timeline, doesn't mean its broken, it only means you cooked the books.
“That's why their leadership takes pains to try to discredit the idea that gas can be compressed into a liquid and/or solid.” [excerpt]Thats a strawman because everybody knows that you can liquefy stuff like oxygen and nitrogen.
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