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Tiller's Killing: Necessary... But Unlawful
Commonweal Review Magazine ^ | June 3, 2009, 8:07 am | David Gibson

Posted on 06/03/2009 11:13:53 AM PDT by lewisglad

In a commentary today, Creighton theologian R.R. Reno parses the justifications for killing an abortion doctor like George Tiller, and finds that alleged murderer Scott Roeder came up short–though barely. Reno says that “The blanket condemnation [by Catholics bishops] of ‘violence’ seems unhelpfully expansive” and so he wants to explain that the reasons Tiller’s killer was wrong “are not as simple as they seem.”

Reno says that under Christian thinking, such an action would have to satisfy three conditions: It would target the guilty, not the innocent; it would have to be necessary (principally to protect others); and it would have to be an act of self-defense that does not “violate the principle of legitimate authority” by being premeditated and calculated violence, as Tiller’s killing was. Reno says the suspect got two out of three:

The emphasis on “unlawful use of violence,” the evocation of “vigilantism,” and the description of Tiller’s killer as a “vigilante killer” are all exactly right. We are all sinners, but it is painfully obvious that Dr. George Tiller acted in wanton disregard for the sanctity of life. Killing him did not violate the principle of innocence. Moreover, he gave no evidence of stopping. As a result, perhaps something like the principle of necessity can be satisfied. But it is certainly obvious that his killer was acting as the law unto himself. He arrogated to himself the roles of jury, judge, and executioner. He violated the principle of legitimate authority.

That strikes me as far too close to justification, as others would argue that unjust laws shouldn’t stop us. With their redesigned site, the First Things blog now allows comments, and the first commenter on Reno’s thread pressed him to go further, asking how Reno’s argument would apply to Bonhoeffer or the Nazi resistance. Good question.

(Excerpt) Read more at commonwealmagazine.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; US: Kansas
KEYWORDS: abortionists; christianity; georgetiller; roeder; tiller
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To: metmom
But to paint him as a martyr like they have makes me wonder if we’ve gotten past the *as it was in the days of Noah* stage.

This Scripture describes our present world perfectly, IMHO:

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. – 2 Timothy 3:1-5

It's time.

Maranatha, Jesus!!!

181 posted on 06/06/2009 10:33:25 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: P-Marlowe
"Tiller's worshipers are today praising the fact that heaven will be a better place because George Tiller is now there."
********

They have no say in the matter. God is sovereign, and we must let God be Sovereign.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"The silence of the Pro-life movement leaders (whoever they are) to that blasphemy is deafening."
*********

Pro-life leaders, and there are many, are not allowing Roeder nor the Tiller klan to define who they are and the principles they adhere to. Truth and God are on the side of the pro-life movement. For pro-life leaders to insert themselves into this enemedia circus would be counterproductive. The pro-aborts are all preaching to their own 'choir' - that choir of death that celebrates abortion as good and right and 'a right'. Pro-lifers should know and understand that we're winning this battle - more and more people are identifying themselves as pro-life and we need to translate this into pro-life support at the polls - not insert ouselves into some morass of a loner's making.

Roeder caused this media circus - you P-Marlowe have at least partially defended Roeder in this. Now you're calling on pro-life leaders to help unravel the mess. What Roeder did will not help reduce the great mass of abortions, nor ultimately forward the pro-life movement. While that murder of Tiller is important in and of itself, in the grand battle of Pro-Life vs. Pro-Death - it is but a blip, it is a non-sequitor. Roeder doesn't deserve anything more from us but our prayers. Do not expect pro-life leaders to lower themselves into this molasses keg to assist Roeder in this, nor to address the pro-aborts who are taking Roeder's act and making hay and sordid commentaries about heaven with it. Addressing them in this would only give more fuel to the fire.

Who do we have to thank for that?

Let the fire burn down and promote Life and Truth in a much more powerful manner than to jump in and, in any way, shape or form, attach our wagon's to Tiller or Roeder.
182 posted on 06/07/2009 10:32:37 AM PDT by SeattleBruce (God, Family, Country and the Tea Party! Take America Back! [I hate the BIGOTRY in the enemedia.])
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To: metmom

“If someone had been caught dismembering 60,000 two year olds for hire, I suspect that even many of the most hard core anti-death penalty crowd would have second thoughts.”

You know MetMom, this is an important analogy. If we really believe that abortion is murder, then our task is to convince society that the fetuses and growing babies in the womb are indeed human beings every bit as much as a two year old. We are succeeding in that for the first time since 1995 more people ID themselves as pro-life than pro-choice - 51% pro-life. This issue SHOULD cut across both parties and independents as well. Our work is laid out for us.

We must win the next generation of hearts and minds to the message of Life! Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...but the first of these is Life...


183 posted on 06/07/2009 10:47:02 AM PDT by SeattleBruce (God, Family, Country and the Tea Party! Take America Back! [I hate the BIGOTRY in the enemedia.])
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To: Alamo-Girl; P-Marlowe; SeattleBruce; wagglebee; blue-duncan; xzins; metmom
betty boop has often written of a disease of the spirit - like mental illness only much worse. This is below even the natural state of a man.

Indeed, "below the natural state of a man." In a certain way, its sufferers refuse to be men, if by being a man we mean being in the image of God. That image is the only thing that separates us from the beasts of the field.

I suppose Tiller was a beast. There is no question in my mind (based on his public statements) that he suffered from this pneumopathological disease that Plato called nosos (I'd describe this as a collapse of the self for loss of the divine pull), and Cicero aspernatio rationalis ("contempt for reason.") It is especially clear that Tiller was a person who "call[s] evil good, and good evil; that put[s] darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put[s] bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"

Indeed, he seemed to be on a one-man Crusade to invert the entire moral order of Western civilization. The devaluation of Life and Truth and Justice was this Crusader's main weapon. His victims were not restricted to just the babies he killed. He was attempting to victimize society itself by undermining its moral core.

184 posted on 06/07/2009 11:26:55 AM PDT by betty boop (Tyranny is always whimsical. — Mark Steyn)
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; P-Marlowe; SeattleBruce; blue-duncan; xzins; metmom
Tiller knew EXACTLY what he was (from 2003):

Partial-Birth Abortionist Confesses He is "Going to Hell"

The opportunity did not go unseized. A sidewalk counselor repeatedly told abortionist Tiller that God was concerned about the babies he murders through abortion. She also expressed that God was concerned about Tiller's soul. Other counselors urged Tiller to repent for the "shedding of innocent blood," and to beg Jesus to forgive his murderous sins.

With Tiller arriving at the front gate to his property, a counselor finished her plea, "You can't go to heaven unrepentant, George; you are going to hell." The abortionist George Tiller instantly quipped, "Abortion is worth going to hell for."

185 posted on 06/07/2009 11:35:39 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: betty boop
Thank you oh so very much for explaining this disease and offering your insights, dearest sister in Christ!
186 posted on 06/07/2009 11:40:52 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: wagglebee; betty boop
Thank you so much for that article and excerpt, dear brother in Christ!

The abortionist George Tiller instantly quipped, "Abortion is worth going to hell for."

This is almost as disturbing as his ghoulish offering of photographs of the mother with her freshly killed child.

187 posted on 06/07/2009 11:42:42 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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