Posted on 06/03/2009 11:13:53 AM PDT by lewisglad
In a commentary today, Creighton theologian R.R. Reno parses the justifications for killing an abortion doctor like George Tiller, and finds that alleged murderer Scott Roeder came up short–though barely. Reno says that “The blanket condemnation [by Catholics bishops] of ‘violence’ seems unhelpfully expansive” and so he wants to explain that the reasons Tiller’s killer was wrong “are not as simple as they seem.”
Reno says that under Christian thinking, such an action would have to satisfy three conditions: It would target the guilty, not the innocent; it would have to be necessary (principally to protect others); and it would have to be an act of self-defense that does not “violate the principle of legitimate authority” by being premeditated and calculated violence, as Tiller’s killing was. Reno says the suspect got two out of three:
The emphasis on “unlawful use of violence,” the evocation of “vigilantism,” and the description of Tiller’s killer as a “vigilante killer” are all exactly right. We are all sinners, but it is painfully obvious that Dr. George Tiller acted in wanton disregard for the sanctity of life. Killing him did not violate the principle of innocence. Moreover, he gave no evidence of stopping. As a result, perhaps something like the principle of necessity can be satisfied. But it is certainly obvious that his killer was acting as the law unto himself. He arrogated to himself the roles of jury, judge, and executioner. He violated the principle of legitimate authority.
That strikes me as far too close to justification, as others would argue that unjust laws shouldn’t stop us. With their redesigned site, the First Things blog now allows comments, and the first commenter on Reno’s thread pressed him to go further, asking how Reno’s argument would apply to Bonhoeffer or the Nazi resistance. Good question.
(Excerpt) Read more at commonwealmagazine.org ...
Thanks for the ping! I was enjoying this thread until everyone got all nicey, nicey. Sheesh! ;o)
IIRC you were an Arminian when you were debating Calvinists and a Calvinist when you were debating Arminians.
And a lawyer all the time.
I stopped worrying about you, Marlowe, after you posted the Institutes. They are solid enough to persuade the persuaders. 8~)
So you’re suggesting we need a “witch of Endor?”
Anyone know if Hillary is a freeper?
It’s sort of like a family reunion, only
we aren’t family
and we haven’t been separated
and we aren’t reuniting
It's a positive vector, and that's what matters. 8~)
“I haven’t witnessed a swarm of Calvinists in a long time. But I think it could be arranged. :-)”
I think I have it. Do you realize that the Annointed One, the Obama, is a member of the Reformed faith?
That and a Calvinist verse by a favorite reformed saint sent to nobdysfool will get your name...on...the...list.
You know you want it. So close...
That reminds me. I need to finish that project some day.
Here's the keyword: theinstitutes We left off at Book Second Chapter 5.
Were there *any* German citizens whose lives were not forfeit at the whim of the SS? Weren’t their lives cheapened by the euthanasia, the polgroms and the camps?
Which of them could say that they enjoyed liberty and the right not to be killed from 1933 until 1945, if they hid Jews or, as Bonhoeffer did, plotted to overthrow or kill Hitler?
Yeah, and he was born in a hospital in Hawaii and he likes to bowl.
I always believed salvation was monergistic. What we argued over was whether faith, being a gift, was an act of human volition.
“It is a poor sermon that gives no offense; that neither makes the hearer displeased with himself nor with the preacher. “ George Whitefield
Lol. My responses here would be a lot funnier if I didn't have a reputation to protect.
You make a good point. Scott Roeder is no hero. He’s anti-abortion, but he’s not pro-life, as no person who’s pro-life would shoot an unarmed man in a house of worship. Also, this murder does not do benefit the pro-life cause in any way.
We’ll never know, will we, since so few of them tried.
There have been no late term abortions in Kansas since 5/31/09.
Who are you going to thank for that?
Be still my heart.
As for human volition, I was reading Jeremiah the other day...
Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words." -- Jeremiah 18:1-2"The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
We're all deaf unless He "causes us to hear."
Thank you so much for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ!
“Although believers by nature, are far from God, and children of wrath, even as others, yet it is amazing to think how nigh they are brought to him again by the blood of Jesus Christ.” George Whitefield
Yes, it does. It forces us to decide whether we think abortion really is murder.
If it is murder, then Tiller was a murderer who murdered 60,000 souls.
Are you just mouthing words, or do you REALLY think that abortion is murder?
Someone else will fill the gap, and in the meantime, Tiller the Killer has become a martyr. Don’t be surprised if Lifetime Television films a bio. This happens just as public opinion had turned in the pro-life movement’s corner.
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