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To: melstew
The scientists on both sides... believe warming causes co2 release. The overwhelming majority of scientists say yes—but there is no definitive proof.

What a brazen lie. The two side are divided precisely over this issue, and there is overwhelmig evidence - data - that CO2 levels are either completely separate from warming (in that they can rise during cooling phases), or are even themselves driven BY warming (which makes logical sense because it acknowleges the effects of both oceanic heating and biological growth, rather than the absurd opposite). In addition, the only overwhelming number of actual climate scientists are the ones completely against the unjustified, data-lacking, speculation-only pseudoscience that claims CO2 to cause warming.

Your "feedback loop" concept isn't unique but rather ubiquitous in science, but your "questions" about it's applications in AGW are entirely frivolous. You aren't making nice between the two sides, you're trying to validate the side that's supporting the biggest fraud in science history by declaring it viable without proof, and by implying connections for which you provide no data and spurious "logic", while slamming everyone's criticisms with contemptuous disdain for their rationality.

And one more thing - 2007 & 2008 temperatures followed a years long dropping trend - not warming. Any claims to the contrary involve massaged and questionable spot data, specifically extracted from the trend analysis, to help claims of the opposite of what all scientists see happening, but that a politically driven subgroup is trying frantically to cover up and deny - the utter lack of AGW.

68 posted on 05/31/2009 10:08:59 AM PDT by Talisker (When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
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To: Talisker

Wow. Calling me liar because the facts got in your way of your absurd little argument. Seems like you are really open to questioning your views. You don’t deserve the time—but here’s the link to one of many consensus scientists acknowledging warming proceeds CO2.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=13

Only an utter buffoon would suggest that warming and co2 are definitely not interrelated. You have outed yourself as a kook.

My point here was never that agw is or is not occurring. Only that the evidence you cite is inconsistent with your conclusions. You are no better than Al Gore. You hear what you want to hear, and twist facts to a desired end. You are what you despise. Very sad indeed.


70 posted on 05/31/2009 2:22:55 PM PDT by melstew
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To: Talisker

There is an interesting book, Secrets of the Ice Ages by Robert Johnson, that discusses the effects of salinity in the oceans of the world in conveyer currents and in removing CO2 from the atmosphere.

His main focus is the role of the Mediterranean Sea in buffering climate change.

According to him the North Atlantic Ocean is the saltiest ocean in the world, due to the formation of the Isthmus of Panama and the Mediterranean Sea. In the Carribean Sea, water evaporated is blown west and much deposited in the Pacific Ocean. In the Mediterranean Sea, much of the water evaporated into the atmosphere is blown East and deposited in lands that drain into the Indian Ocean. Thus the Mediterranean Sea is very salty, even saltier than the North Atlantic, and made more so by damming major rivers like the Nile.

This increased salt load is why the conveyer currents work. The salty water in the Carribean is carried north in the “Gulf Stream” where it cools and sinks because the salt makes it heavier. The salty Mediterranean water flows out into the Atlantic with less salty Atlantic water inflowing in a deep current to take its place. At the levels of salinity now, some of the outflow of the Mediterranean goes north to the North Sea, and thus increases the saltiness of the fingers of Gulf currents there, prolonging their life span in face of glacial melt mix attempt to dilute them and shut them down.

This author believes that the increased CO2 in the salty water from our present atmospheric levels then plunges down into the deep ocean when this heavy salty water cools and from there follows the deep ocean current down to Antartica where the upwelling of deeper cold water has less CO2 at present. This he says is currently moderating the CO2 rise.

He has more information and caveats in his book, and it is an interesting read.


77 posted on 05/31/2009 5:16:23 PM PDT by patriciaruth (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1993905/posts)
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