Posted on 05/26/2009 10:32:53 AM PDT by lewisglad
Many of us have friends, family and colleagues who still cling to liberalism, and worship at the altar of Obama. Usually, they are not bad people. They're neither stupid nor pusillanimous -- they're just shockingly ill-informed, having received a lifetime of news and opinions solely from the liberal media.
We want to enlighten our friends, not offend them, and the fact is that one cannot simultaneously insult and persuade people.
So how do you talk to liberals if you want them to begin thinking logically, not emotionally, about issues? Insults are counterproductive, factual barrages are boring, and most people get defensive when they feel you're attacking their values. Nevertheless, here are a few ways to find the chink in a liberal's intellectual armor and, possibly, effect a sea change in his thinking.
1. Understand what a liberal perceives as insulting -- and then avoid it.
We're all agreed that people are going to shut down if you start a conversation by calling them blithering idiots. In any event, you're too nice a person to call your family, friends and colleagues names.
Be aware, though, that, with liberals, personal insults don't stop with the actual person (or his mother). For liberals, the political is personal. This means that liberals will take it as a personal insult, not only if you call them morons, but also if you call their leaders morons.
While conservatives spent eight years hearing "Bush lied, people died" or "Cheney is evil", responding with reasoned facts aimed at real dialogue, even the nicest liberals don't operate that way. If you open a conversation by saying, "Pelosi is an idiot," or "Obama is the Manchurian candidate," you can expect tears, yelling or a punch in the nose. Any persuasive conversation will be over before it's begun.
2. Show that you are sympathetic to the liberal's goals.
The best way to start a conversation with a liberal is by speaking liberal language. Show that you think that the person's ultimate goal is admirable or that you recognize the person's concerns.
A perfect conversation starter might be "Gosh, universal healthcare would really be great." The beauty of this statement is that, in a perfect Star Trek-style world, free of money and greed, it's true that free, comprehensive healthcare, preferably with Dr. Beverly Crusher's magical little tricorder device, would be great. It would also be really great if all men looked like Dave Beckham or all women like looked like Angelina Jolie. It'll never happen, but it sure would be great.
Another honest conversation starter is "My kids are really worried about global warming." If your kids go to public school, this statement is absolutely true. It also implies, without actually saying so, that you, like all liberals, recognize that humans, especially American, are responsible for the imminent destruction of earth's atmosphere.
With conversation starters such as these, your average liberal will begin the conversation by agreeing with you -- and, as every con man knows, you want the mark to get used to saying "yes" to you. Interestingly, what works for con men can also work for honest brokers. It's a good technique, so use it.
3. Provide the liberal with facts from non-threatening sources.
In many conversations over the years, I've discovered that my liberal friends don't have many politically relevant facts at their finger tips. Liberals know, for example, that "prisoners were waterboarded at Gitmo." The details behind this ultimate fact tend to elude them. Most don't realize that only three high level Al Qaeda operatives were ever waterboarded. Nor do they know that the waterboarding took place in the immediate wake of 9/11, when we had almost no information about Al Qaeda's networks and feared an imminent, and even greater, second attack.
Mostly, though, liberals know conclusions, which they erroneously identify as facts. For example, they know that huge numbers of Americans have no medical care; they know that Obama was a top student at every school he attended; and despite their support for the military, they know that most American troops are ill-educated, violent hicks. As it happens, each of these statements is factually wrong (see here, here and here) and, instead, reflects only an emotional conclusion.
In any conversation with a liberal, therefore, you need to get out the facts. But remember: In pursuit of this goal, attribution is everything. Never say to a liberal that you heard something on Rush's show. This is true even if the fact originated with a liberal Rush was interviewing. Mention Rush and your conversation is over. Finito. Done. Your liberal will shut down.
Instead, always attribute your fact to a comforting source. I like to say, "You know, I read in the New York Times that [insert actual fact]." The beauty of this approach is that the fact may often be found in the New York Times, although it will have been buried in a squiblet at the bottom of page B32, where no one looks. If your friends googles your fact, voila!, she'll get a link to the Times.
Alternatively, attribute your fact to an unnamed knowledgeable, but unthreatening, source. If you're talking about health insurance, and you want to talk about the cost differential between insurance in Texas (a low regulation state) and California (a high regulation) state, say that you got this information from a claims adjuster you met at a party. You've gained credibility and the curious liberal can later find corroboration on the internet.
4. Don't lecture; instead, seek enlightenment.
When conversing with a liberal, I channel my inner dumb blond. I don't use a barrage of facts, nor do I lecture. Instead, I assert politely that I've learned the fact and then I ask the liberal to explain to me what the fact means. I do this even if I know perfectly well what the fact means. (And yes, women can do this more easily than men.)
A good example of this approach in action is universal health care. After you've said, "Gosh, universal healthcare would be really great," you should then follow-up with several "please enlighten me, Oh Great One" questions.
Thus, you might say, "England has managed care doesn't it? It's so funny, but I just read in the New York Times that there's a dentist shortage in England, so people are pulling out their own teeth. Are you sure that won't happen here?" This will either lead to bluster, an insult to British oral hygiene, or a good conversation about how important competition is to entice the best and the brightest into a profession and to keep innovation alive.
Another useful fact/loaded question is this one: "Someone told me that universal health care is kind of like social security -- it works best when there aren't a lot of old people, ‘cause they're the most expensive. I wasn't sure about that. What do you think?" When your liberal starts waffling on, throw into the conversation how you read that, in England, they're discussing euthanizing elderly demented patients, because their care is too expensive.
If you just keep politely throwing in unpleasant facts, followed up by respectful requests for enlightenment, your average liberal will either become tongue-tied, or, if intelligent, work his way through to the correct answer. With managed care, for example, he might conclude that, if you remove all competition and have only one provider, rationing begins, quality plummets, good people pull out of the system, and people suffer and die.
5. Strike when the iron is hot.
To have a successful conversation with a liberal, you need to find an opening that triggers a thought cascade in that particular liberal. Even though liberals are beginning to have buyer's remorse, human nature means they're just as likely to be in denial and defensive as they are to be regretful and receptive. Still there are conversational opportunities, and you must seize them.
I recently visited a die-hard Democrat who had just received her copy of Time Magazine, which had a picture of Michelle Obama on the cover. Now, my friend happens to be very beauty conscious so, in a completely non-hostile way, I scanned the cover and said, "I don't know. She's a nice looking lady, but I don't get why all the news stories keep describing her as beautiful."
I had opened the floodgates. Just like the courtiers in The Emperor's New Clothes, this friend had been trying to convince herself that Michelle was beautiful -- and she couldn't. Finally, though, in response to the media's implicit question of "Who're you going to believe -- me, or your lying eyes?" my friend, with a sigh of relief, could go with her own eyes. I hastened the eye-opening process by showing her Sally Quinn's ridiculous Mother's Day article about Michelle's arms, which left my friend reeling. For the first time ever, my friend is beginning to suspect that she's been had.
6. Don't undo the good you've done.
And if it ever happens that, after you've spoken with a liberal, the liberal actually agrees with you, just be sure to avoid one of the most poisonous phrases in the English language: "I told you so." Instead, quietly agree with your friend's wonderful insights, and have another conversation on another day.
Bush did it.
Where has socialism ever worked?
Only because it's never really been tried, especially by Bush.
Where has national health care ever worked?
It's a little known fact that it was working fine in Texas until Bush became governor.
What do you think will happen to our technologies, health care system, innovations, creativities, if we take away the profit motive?
We'll finally pry them out of the evil hands of greedy corporations and people like BUSH.
Why do populations shift to the more conservative areas, whether neighborhoods, schools, cities, or states?
Because the proletariat is trying to take back the skewed false consciousness imposed upon these communities since the BEGINNING OF TIME by BUSH!!!!
Why do white liberals refuse to move into minority neighborhoods and send their kids to minority schools? ie. why not demonstrate your “commitment to diversity” with your own lives?
WHY DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND>>>??? IT'S ALL BUSH'S FAULT. HE WON'T LET US MOVE THERE!!!! GAH, YOU AND RUSH LIMBAUGH ARE BOTH NATZI'S!!!!
Are you willing to give up your own position of employment or your child’s college admission in the name of “affirmative action”?
BUSH HATES ALL PERSONS OF COLOUR AND I NEED THAT JOB, YOU SICK PERVERT. YOU HATE EVERYTHING. YOU'RE DEMENTED. STOP MOCKING ME!~!!!!
Why not a Section 8 housing project in your neighborhood?
I'm calm now. NOT LIKE YOU BUSH LOVERS AT ALL!!! Those people need some place to live. It's just that BUSH won't let them live anywhere. That's why it's called Section 8. Just like Area 51. BUSH SUCKS and CHENEY DRIVES THROUGH SECTION 8 HOUSING IN A DEATHRACE MOBILE SHOOTING PEOPLE IN THE FACE!!!! I SAW IT IN A MOVIE. INCONVENIENT TRUTH FOR YOU BUSH LOVERS, ISN'T IT!! MUha.
If conservatives are so evil, why do liberals keep moving into their neighborhoods and want to attend their schools?
I already explained this to you in a civil fashion above, you BUSH AND CHENEY LOVING STUPID, STUPID, STUPID, AND I DO BODILY FUNCTIONS IN YOUR DIRE TION. GAH. MAKE THE VOICES STOP. BUSH AND CHENEY ARE IN MY HEAD, MAKE THEM STOP....
Why do studies show conservatives are much more generous in terms of charitable giving then liberals?
IF I HAVE TO EXPLAIN THIS TO YOU THEN YOU JUST DON'T HAVE A SINGLE HUMAN EMOTION, YOU'RE NOT EVEN PART OF THE HUMAN RACE, YOU BUSH TORTURE LOVING CHENEY FACE SHOOTER JERK. HOW DO YOU EXPEC T ME TO HAVE A CIVIL DISCOURSE WITH YOU AND EDUCATE YOU WHEN ALL YOU DO IS SPEW YOUR STUPID QUES....hey...look, it's Michelle O's arms. Wow. I'm in love.... I feel good. What were we talking about? Oh, and I HATE YOU, YOU STUPID BUSH LOVER,
There. Based upon my many years as a long-hair, socialist, hippie, but fortunately now recovered democrat, I've channeled the intellectual might of the left and answered each of your questions in appropriate leftist format. Just for starters . . .
I understand. I was just pointing out that it goes beyond the typical liberal with a marginal association to Christianity. For them, it may be easy to reject Biblical teaching. But for one schooled and ordained in a Christian (or supposed Christian) Church, that's another matter entirely. At least it is to me.
OK . .you win
...Or you could just shoot ‘em...
Try the Al Capone approach: “You can get more with a smile, a handshake and a gun than you can with a smile and a handshake.”
Should read “now fortunately recovered ex-democrat.
Talking to liberals is an utter waste of time and energy which would be much better put to use getting away from them and building communities founded on truth instead of lies. Communications with liberals should extend to confirming their liberal identity, at which point it’s best to avoid them entirely.
The title is based on an erroneous supposition; that a liberal has a mind. They don’t. They have feelings.
I am far less sympathetic to liberals, not only because I know their historical roots are *not* liberal, and that their desired end results are deeply offensive to traditional American values, often based in hatred and envy, that they do not seek to build but to tear down, and finally, that they embrace these loathsome ideas in a cultish, deceitful, and almost mentally ill manner. They do not have pattern recognition, and embrace failed ideas in an obsessive-compulsive way despite volumes of evidence to the contrary.
To start with are the euphemisms they use. The word “liberal” they apply to radicals, and have done so since radicals captured control of the Democrat party. And those who today are called “conservatives” by liberals, are actually moderates. In effect, “conservatives” are anyone opposed to radical change, which the radicals call “right wing”.
From the founding of the American republic, Americans have been at the forefront of spreading the democratic revolution around the world. First to overcome the kings and princes, then to fight against the tyrants, dictators and other tyrannies. As such, good Americans remain revolutionaries who offer democratic ideas to the oppressed of the world in how to improve their lives.
We do this both from kindness, and for our own benefit, because we have continually relearned that the only nations we can even halfway trust are the real democracies. Any other form of government will eventually lead them to be the enemies of democracy, and the initiators of war.
But in this noble endeavor, those Americans who want to spread the democratic revolution are always opposed by the Democrat party.
The Democrats have long played the nemesis to freedom and liberty for anyone, including their fellow Americans. They advocated and supported slavery, segregation, foreign tyrants, anarchists and fanatics, adored communism, and even for a time national socialism.
They did everything in their power to prevent America from fighting against such monstrous villainies. In recent decades supporting anyone who would oppose America.
Within our nation, they despise and seek to undermine our heroes, our traditions, our culture, our laws, our government, our symbols, our freedoms, our families, our economy, our religions and our morals. Had they to a person been replaced with Soviet agents, they could not have done more to damage our nation.
Do I want to persuade them to stop doing this? It’s more than too late to do this. It would be far better for them to be encouraged to leave America, to spread their nuisance to some other place.
But they are horrified with the idea of living in a land filled with others of their kind, because they know it would be a horrible place of poverty, despair and tyranny. Instead they want conservatives to continue to build, so the liberals have something to tear down, hate and despise.
bookmaek
I think that’s way too combative.
I think it’s important to stick to the words specifically - not the lib code-wording.
Health care for all is a good thing, an admirable thing. Now, we know that as they mean it, it is ridiculous, won’t work, etc. But the trick is to find the common ground and help them come around to understanding the way things really work.
If we all could change one person’s perspectives on something, we could change this country (back to the way it should be).
Really? Over the years, I've seen quite a number of posts by Freepers who used to be liberals. I've heard callers on Rush who used to be liberals. Some of them can apparently change -- but I don't think any have claimed to be influenced toward conservatism by hostile and snarky comments by conservatives . . .
I don’t waste my time talking to liberals when I have other important and pressing items on my agenda like stopping to tie my shoelace or as one late night comedian used to say something of this nature “ Going down to the grocery store at midnight to watch them unload produce.”
Indeed - since we’re characterized as hostile and uncaring, why feed into the stereotypes?
My ultra-liberal, Prius driving, algore adoring, man-made gorebull warming believer stopped by the house some time ago and told me my outdoor clothes line was against the HOA ordinance.
I told her "I am trying to stop gorebull warming, so I am using the sun instead of my dryer in the house". She left in a huffy fit. She doesn't even LOOK at me when I am outside now.
‘Provide the liberal with facts from non-threatening sources’
Liberals do not recognise reality so this is very difficult to do. I have had better luck asking them to give support for their assumptions and then slowly poking holes in those assumptions. Unfortunately, this takes patience!
While the article is well-intentioned, it isn’t the best course of action for conservatives.
This is politics. In politics, as in love and war, winning is what counts. Hardcore liberals, like hardcore conservatives, are about 20% - 25% of the population. That’s not where elections are won, on either side. Nope, you have to go after the moderates. Now, to me a “moderate” is someone who thinks a little, but stops at a certain point because he/she doesn’t like the direction in which things are going...i.e. they lack conviction. OK, OK, that’s not always true - but the fact is that without swaying moderates, one does not win an election.
Moderates are generally far, far more open to a reasoned discussion/argument than liberals are. I do think it a good idea to avoid name-calling, insults, etc. (you say more about yourself by doing so than your target), but they are easier to convince because they are more willing to listen. They, for instance, were probably turned off by the “Bush is Hitler” nonsense as much as they are about Obama being the Manchurian Candidate (even if, in fact, he IS and we all know it).
However, I will never moderate my beliefs to impress a lib. I may ask questions instead of attacking with facts and opinions, but that’s a matter of tactics. They don’t apoplogize for their views, so I won’t do so either. I will, however, display a good deal more in the way of rationality and decency than your average liberal seems to - and that will help to convince more moderates.
See post 61 for an example of a former leftist. That said, however, what is it that changes a leftist to a conservative? It's not logic in any of the cases I've ever seen. In my case it was a personal encounter with Christ and the realization that my conservative friends had my back in a very real way. That's not something you can argue someone into. It takes experience--I suspect paying taxes starts many on the road to conservatism, while simply growing up and abandoning the adolescent world of anti-responsibility takes care of many others.
But I have never seen anyone actually respond to reasoned arguments about why they should abandon leftism in favor of conservatism.
It’s more fun when they get up, storm out of the room, and slam the door! Hat trick! I did two in one week some years ago. Clarence Thomas was the topic.
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