Posted on 05/21/2009 4:59:10 PM PDT by fiodora
So who won the fight? (it's hard to use anothing other than a martial or pugilistic metaphor).
But the very fact that Obama chose to schedule his speech (Cheney's was announced first) at exactly the same time as the former veep was a sign of some weakness. The venues for the speeches said something. Obama showily chose the National Archives, repository for many of the founding documents of the US, and spoke in front of a copy of the Constitution - cloaking himself in the flag, as Republicans were often criticised for doing.
To hear Cheney speak, we were crammed into a decidedly unglamourous and cramped conference room at AEI, favourite think tank of conservative hawks.
The former veep's speech was factual and unemotional and certainly devoid of the kind of hokey, self-obsessed, campaign-style stuff like this, from Obama's address today: "I stand here today as someone whose own life was made possible by these documents. My father came to these shores in search of the promise that they offer. My mother made me rise before dawn to learn their truths when I lived as a child in a foreign land."
In terms of Obama's purported aim for his speech - to present a plan for closing Guantanamo Bay aimed at placating Congress - he failed. The reception on Capitol Hill was lukewarm with even Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.
Cheney's speech wasn't stylish, there were no rhetorical flourishes and the tone was bitingly sarcastic and disdainful at times. But it was effective in many respects and Cheney showed that Obama is not invulnerable. Here are 10 of the punches he landed on the President's jaw:
(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.telegraph.co.uk ...
Can you not LOVE that man !!!!
I missed the performances, but it’s reminescent of what’s happened in the music world. Singers used to have to sing; now they depend on the pyrotechnics.
Actually it was a direct reference to what the French actually did in the Algerian war. You know, which they lost by destroying domestic support for the effort through torture, even if it won the battle of Algiers tactically. They simply misunderstood the crucial dynamic of the entire war and treated the entire thing as an intelligence operation, and lost in consequence. Oh they also almost had a coup, and did change their constitution.
And of course Cheney is justifying torture as expedient. What's with the silly euphemisms? When someone defends it by saying their guilty anyway, or that it worked, they aren't defending it as ineffective or moral in itself. The same arguments run even if it is the French approach.
What are you too squeemish to fight terrorists the way Jacques Massu fought them? Why? What principle makes you think we should draw any line in the matter at all? If eletrodes to genitals works better than waterboarding, why shouldn't be electrocute genitals all day long, instead of pussyfooting around with just a few people?
Make an argument. State a principle. Try to reason about it instead of just emoting like a propaganda puppet with straw between your ears. What is the actual justification for the practice of deliberately making enemies suffer as much as is necessary to break them? Is it their guilt? Is it the expediency of the thing? The urgency of the goal? Make an actual case for it, don't duck and hide.
You won't find a reason that won't generalize to destruction. Try it.
bump
What a great picture!!!! Our great American Spine vs the 0-spineless. Mr. Cheney knows a “0” when he sees it!
Big Time is a stud. We need more men and women like him running things.
wouldn’t it be nice if - whenever Obama mentioned his mother and father, he would be so kind as to inform all of us they both were marxists?
OMG!! Thanks. Can’t wait to tell my Jewish In Laws that VOTED for him!
Cheney is a National Treasure. Debating obozo is like an 18 wheeler against a Fart Car.
Pray for America
I believe his father came to these shores looking for young inpressionable white girls (flower children) who felt that it was their obligation to make up for the prior social evils that society had imposed on the black people by providing easy sexual opportunities for them. It really didn't matter that the slavery issue had not affected him personally.
.
You are very welcome.
May I suggest that you and your inlaws go to The Obama File http://www.theobamafile.com/ by our own FReeper, Beckwith. Read the sections on ‘Islam’ and ‘Religion’. The evidence is overwhelming.
The United States Library of Congress
has selected The Obama File http://www.theobamafile.com/ inclusion in its
historic collections of Internet materials
http://www.theobamafile.com/LibraryOfCongress.html
.
“Cheney was dubbed as a person possessing ‘gravitas’. Today it was on full display. Thank you sir.”
Dick Cheney - Alpha Male
Zero - Metrosexual
The difference is like night and day.
Wow
Is there a transcript and video link to VP Cheney’s speech?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3uW64nnZis
“Cheney taking it to Obama has been the only political bright spot so far I have seen since the masquerader took the oath of POTUS.
Keep it up Vice President Cheney, you are a breath of fresh air, you have and continue to serve your country well.”
I hear you! I felt the same; however, after watching and hearing this great man, MR. CHENEY, and his daughter, I started smiling again.
Thanks Mr. Cheney!!!
“Next time somebody asks you who the leader of the Republican Party and conservatives is the answer is pretty clear. Dick Cheney.”
That’s a deal!!!
“In a sophmore philosophy class he’d be left sputtering in twenty minutes and no one could take him seriously. I can give chapter and verse if you doubt it.”
JasonC, I don’t think Mr. Cheney’s aspirations is to compete with Derida, Sartere, and/or Ayers philosophy... I think you have an intellectual indigestion. This is about the security of this country and the American people.
I think America is not up to your philosophical altitude, we want to be safe and free to take up those hard philosophy classes...
Hell is other people, JasonC...
http://select.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/opinion/06kristof.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Op-Ed Columnist Obama: Man of the World
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF Published: March 6, 2007
"Mr. Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully uncalculated (it’ll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr.Obama described the call to prayer as “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.”
Where is the MEDIA???? Where is the CURIOSITY??? The Muslim call tp paryaer is PRETTY?>??? YUK!
Yuk on my spelling!!! I’m a hunt and pecker working on two things...never smart.
I believe his father came to these shores looking for young inpressionable white girls (flower children) who felt that it was their obligation to make up for the prior social evils that society had imposed on the black people by providing easy sexual opportunities for them. It really didn't matter that the slavery issue had not affected him personally. My father came to these shores in search of the promise that they offer."
Bingo!
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