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Obama’s Gitmo “plan” is soaring rhetoric, riling his base by using a hodge podge of mistruths
Flopping Aces ^ | 05-21-09 | Mataharley

Posted on 05/21/2009 12:58:10 PM PDT by Starman417

Mike's A has already posted the contrasting transcripts of both the current POTUS and former Veep on another thread. There was certainly a boat load of soaring rhetoric of feel good BS and high minded moralith on Gitmo unloaded on the national viewing audience with which to take issue today.

But for the moment, I want to address Obama's assertation that federal courts were adept at trying the "worst of the worst" detainees by holding up Zacarias Moussaoui, Ramzi Yousef and Ali Saleh al-Marri as examples. In fact, there is a vast difference between these two and those Obama wants to import to the US judicial system.

First, when feasible, we will try those who have violated American criminal laws in federal courts - courts provided for by the United States Constitution. Some have derided our federal courts as incapable of handling the trials of terrorists. They are wrong. Our courts and juries of our citizens are tough enough to convict terrorists, and the record makes that clear. Ramzi Yousef tried to blow up the World Trade Center - he was convicted in our courts, and is serving a life sentence in U.S. prison. Zaccarias Moussaoui has been identified as the 20th 9/11 hijacker - he was convicted in our courts, and he too is serving a life sentence in prison. If we can try those terrorists in our courts and hold them in our prisons, then we can do the same with detainees from Guantanamo.

Recently, we prosecuted and received a guilty plea from a detainee - al-Marri - in federal court after years of legal confusion. We are preparing to transfer another detainee to the Southern District of New York, where he will face trial on charges related to the 1998 bombings of our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania - bombings that killed over 200 people. Preventing this detainee from coming to our shores would prevent his trial and conviction. And after over a decade, it is time to finally see that justice is served, and that is what we intend to do.

Ramzi Yousef was arrested in Pakistan, and extradited to the US in 1995 or early 1996. He was tried for committed on US soil... i.e. the 1993 WTC bombing, and a 1994 bombing of an airliner. Note... crimes committed on US soil and against our federal laws. Not a conspiracy to commit a crime or support for jihad. There was also the letter he sent claiming responsibility as evidence.

Zacaris Moussaoui was educated in London, and lived in Okalahoma, taking flight training in 2001. He was arrested on US soil - in MN in 2001. I'll repeat that... unlike Yousef, who was tried and convicted for "crimes" committed but arrested in Pakistan, Moussaoui was captured within the US borders, and prosecutors had substantial evidence of his culpability.

Ali Saleh al-Marri was initially detained in Peoria, IL under a traffic stop, and detained in civilian jails until he was designated an unlawful combatant a month or so later by the Bush administration. Ali Soufan's questioning of Mohamed al-Kahtani, who mentioned al-Marri as a relative, led to terrorism charges. al-Marri, arrested and operating on US soils, was not transferred to Gitmo, but sent to the Naval Consolidation Brig in SC, and tried in US courts. Again... arrested and operating in the US, and on our soil.

While we're at it, let's include Salon's Glenn Greenwald's list of others tried in US courts posted back in Jan 2009 under the title of "The newest fear-mongering campaign from the Right and the media". To Obama's list, Greenwald adds several more.

Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, convicted, 1996, U.S. District Court (before then-U.S. District Judge Michael Mukasey) -- plotting terrorist attacks on the U.S. (currently: U.S. prison, Butler, North Carolina);

Rahman operated in the US, and was arrested in Brooklyn in June of 1993.

Richard Reid, convicted, 2003, U.S. Federal Court -- attempting to blow up U.S.-bound jetliner over the Atlantic Ocean (currently: U.S. prison, Florence, Colorado);

British citizen subdued by American Airline passengers on a flight from Paris. The flight was diverted and landed at Logan, where Reid was arrested after the shoe bomb elements were detected.

Jose Padilla, convicted, 2007, U.S. Federal Court -- conspiracy to commit terrorism (currently: U.S. prison, Florence, Colorado);

Padilla was arrested in Chicago in May 2002, detained until June when he was subsequently labeled an enemy combatant.

Iyman Faris a/k/a/ Mohammad Rauf, convicted, 2003, U.S. Federal Court -- providing material support and resources to Al-Qaeda, conspiracy to commit terrorist acts on behalf of Al Qaeda (currently: U.S. prison, Florence, Colorado);

Faris was outed by KSM in March of 2003, and detained while living in Columbus, OH. He agreed to perform as a double agent for the FBI, was was quickly arrested while texting information to the enemy while sitting in a Virginia safehouse.

Masoud Khan, convicted, 2004, U.S. Federal Court -- conspiracy to commit terrorism as part of Lashkar-e-Taiba and Islamic jihad (currently: U.S. prison, Terre Haute, Indiana);

Khan was one of 11 arrested, also known as the "paintball terrorists". He traveled to Pakistan from his Gaithersburg, MD home to train with the Taliban. All eleven were arrested on US soil, in MD, PA and VA. You might want to consider that the jury rendered verdicts on only 12 of the original 32 counts, and four of those were not guilty.

John Walker Lindh, convicted, 2002, U.S. Federal Court -- providing material support to the Taliban (currently: U.S. prison, Florence, Colorado).

Of all, Johnnie boy is the only American citizen... certainly the only obvious one to have immediate access to the US judicial system by the nature of his citizen status. He was captured in Afghanistan by the Northern Alliance in Nov 2001. Even at that, the legal process was fraught with motions and requests to unseal documents, suppress involuntary statements and agent interrogation evidence.


In contrast to all of the above heretofore mentioned, the vast majority... if not all... of the Gitmo detainees have never set foot on US soil.

(Excerpt) Read more at Flopping Aces ...

TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: gitmo; obama; terrorism

1 posted on 05/21/2009 12:58:10 PM PDT by Starman417
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To: Starman417


2 posted on 05/21/2009 12:58:59 PM PDT by myaccount2009
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To: Starman417

I don’t think its possible for Obama to rile his base. After all, he’s the rock star.

3 posted on 05/21/2009 1:02:16 PM PDT by Sig Sauer P220 (The great object is that every man be armed. - Patrick Henry)
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To: Starman417

The jive talker plants a wet one.

4 posted on 05/21/2009 1:06:07 PM PDT by Tarpon (You abolish your responsibilities, you surrender your rights.)
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To: Starman417

For all the handwringing over Gitmo, the sum total of 0bamas’ changes relative to the Bush admin’s acts are to bring the detainees to a US prison and assumedly try them under US law. The costs for this piece of liberal theatre will be in the tens if not hundreds of millions. These are pieces of human scum who deserve an 8 cent bullet between their eyes and they deserved it 5 years ago.

5 posted on 05/21/2009 1:06:40 PM PDT by Attention Surplus Disorder (Mr. Bernanke, have you started working on your book about the second GREATER depression?")
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To: Starman417

What I haven’t seen reported is that by stating publicly that terrorists held today will be brought to the US, tried and “convicted” that he has guaranteed that any future judge will have to toss out all charges. Presumption of innocence.

Any good lawyer will find a way to claim that the TOTUS has so predjudiced the jury pool that a fair trial is impossible.

And this guy calls himself a lawyer.

6 posted on 05/21/2009 1:09:53 PM PDT by PhilosopherStones
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To: Attention Surplus Disorder

There is another cost: A public trial gives intelligence information to the ENEMY!

Enemy Combatants do NOT deserve access to the US Court system.

It is time for Congress to pass a resolution telling SCOTUS to back off. SCOTUS is NOT the court of original jurisdiction in these matters, and Congress does have the right to check the Courts on these matters.

7 posted on 05/21/2009 1:10:23 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Starman417

In O’s speech do a ‘find’ on the word ‘likely’. Eg:

“Guantanamo became a symbol that helped al Qaeda recruit terrorists to its cause. Indeed, the existence of Guantanamo *likely* created more terrorists around the world than it ever detained.”

There is no evidence to this. This is only a stupid theory in the head of liberals and Cheney addressed this point and gave evidence that just the opposite was the case. It was the US values - of NOT allowing this deed to go unpunished and the values of life and liberty and equal treatment of women that were the finger in the eye of jihadist terrorists.

This ‘likely’ and similar weasel words are the same as used in the ‘excuses’ for all liberal ‘programs’. There ‘may’ be global warming or the effects ‘may’ have consequences that are terrible. It is ‘likely’ that NYC will be under water, blah, blah, blah.... When our national policy is dictated by the same type of ruminations of a pothead in a college dorm rap session, we’re in deep trouble.

And has anyone else considered that, in an earlier time, given the current situation, that with the obvious idiots that were arrested in the NYC for possible terrorist activity might have been populated by people that are now running our gov’t? ... or their close friends?

8 posted on 05/21/2009 1:14:07 PM PDT by Kent C
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To: Starman417


9 posted on 05/21/2009 1:15:25 PM PDT by jessduntno (July 4th, 2009. Washington DC. Gadsden Flags. Be There.)
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To: jessduntno


10 posted on 05/21/2009 1:16:32 PM PDT by jessduntno (July 4th, 2009. Washington DC. Gadsden Flags. Be There.)
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To: Starman417
If we can try those terrorists in our courts and hold them in our prisons, then we can do the same with detainees from Guantanamo.

Utter F$%king MORON..!

So you have a terrorist in Gitmo that was given up by an informer in Iraq, and you wheel him into court where his lawyer demands that he faces his accuser...

Result - one dead informer and family; killed in retribution once his identity is known.

11 posted on 05/21/2009 1:20:04 PM PDT by Wil H (The most destructive act of Muslim terrorism against the US was paying for 0bama's Harvard education)
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To: Starman417

Excellent post..The UhBamUh Shellgame Continues...Rule #1 Baffle Them With BS!!

12 posted on 05/21/2009 1:23:19 PM PDT by FlashBack ('0'bama: "Katrina on a Global Level")
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To: Wil H

There is another basic difference between the terrorists apprehended in the US and the Gitmo inmates: the manner of their arrest. US soldiers/Marines/sailors are not law enforcement personnel who arrest people under the 4th & 5th Ammendments and who secure evidence for legal proceedings. Coast Guard personnel are a different matter, but I would be surprised if any of the GITMO detainees are there as a result of an arrest by a Coastie.

The reason I mention this is that any legal proceedings in our federal courts are going to attract top lawyers like sharks to blood. These lawyers are going to make so many pre-trial motions concerning evidence & arrest that the judge is going to go blind. It may not be possible to try these detainees using the normal procedures.

13 posted on 05/21/2009 1:32:59 PM PDT by Tallguy ("The sh- t's chess, it ain't checkers!" -- Alonzo (Denzel Washington) in "Training Day")
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To: Starman417

14 posted on 05/21/2009 1:35:12 PM PDT by william clark (Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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