If Krauthammer writes, we pretty much can discount it. He has been wrong since the beginning of time about aeverything. Yes, Chucky, Pelosi is a liar but torture is still wrong.
I guess sacrificing an American city is OK, then ?
“Yes, Chucky, Pelosi is a liar but torture is still wrong.”
Is waterboarding torture?
Torture just for the sake of torture is wrong. But torture to get information that can save lives is not wrong.
Capain, I’ll give you two scenarios. You can tell me which one is torture.
1. lay someone on the ground, cover his face with a washcloth, pour water on his face, man walks back to cell unaided. Do this to save lives.
2. Stand someone up, cover his face with a bag, take a knife and SAW his completely head off, head is placed on body in two separate pieces. Do this to terrorize innocents.
Door #1 or Door #2.
...How about pull their socks off, and tickle them to almost death???
>> He has been wrong since the beginning of time about aeverything.
>> Yes, Chucky, Pelosi is a liar but torture is still wrong.
So which sentence is the correct sentence?
-—crickets-—, -—crickets-—, -—crickets-—.
You are posting on other threads this morning but won’t support your statements on this thread.
Why is that?
Terrorists have no rights by being terrorists. They have information that can save lives then torture away.
http://brayincandy.com/id132.html
Pray for America
Are you being sarcastic or are you actually Bill Shatner? He would share your opinion.
"Yes, Chucky, Pelosi is a liar but torture is still wrong."
Could you be more explicit about your "torture is still wrong" declaration? For example, by what standard is "torture" wrong? Who, what, when and where made it wrong? What is "torture"...really, the obfuscationization of American English begs this question. Some might think watching "American Idol" is torture. Others might hold out for pulling out finger and/or toe nails, burning certain body parts, gouging eyes, lacerating with sharp or not so sharp instruments, various external and internal chemical applications, electric shot therapy applied in various ways, whipping, beating...just to name a few.
Now I admit I wouldn't choose to be water-boarded for fun and pleasure, in fact I would probably give up all of the information I had to avoid it...unless I had something greater to fear should I give up the information.
One thing I have learned to my satisfaction, folks who are water-boarded do not die, they are not cripled or scared...in fact they are perfectly fine within minutes of the experience.
Daniel Pearl, is not fine...in case you missed some of the graphic video and pictures, his decapitation was not clean and swift.
Oh and the boys who get to endure water-boarding (excluding our Navy Seals...who get the chance during training), can avoid it by just sharing the information they have with their interviewers. Also, afterall, these pigs live in better conditions at Gitmo than they did at home.
Finally, I would contend that Mrs. Pearl and Mr. Pearl's parents are to this day being "tortured" by what those swine who were water-boarded did Mr. Pearl.
Maybe you should disseminate that info to the Jhad websites.
Well Captain, when the Klingons capture you again, we will take it as a given that you don’t want any extraordinary measures taken to rescue you. So noted on Star Date 20090516.
Water boarding is the most extreme of the enhanced techniques used. It was used very sparingly and yielded high quality information that saved lives. Most Americans know that this type of interrogation isn't torture and polls have born this out. A little phychological discomfort to the head hackers is not the same as pulling out fingernails, electric shock, systematic rape and starvation. These are all methods that are used today by our adversaries in this conflict.
Words mean things it is imperative that words like torture are not dumbed down to include being tired, and and having water splashed in your face. If we are not careful someone could pass off a paid street thug as a concerned “community Organizer” and ride that pony to the halls of power.
“Yes, Chucky, Pelosi is a liar but torture is still wrong.” ~ Captain Kirk
You Leftist pious phonies wouldn’t lift a finger to stop REAL torture - the torturing to death of an unborn child. But put a terrorist [or a baby seal, for that matter] in the block and watch them spring into sensitive-soul mode. http://www.jillstanek.com/pba.gif
Partial Birth Waterboarding http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2007/11/09/partial-birth-waterboarding
The truth is out there, but, as evidenced by your posts, you avoid it at ALL costs. Well here it is - in your face:
Bottom line:
“....we are still detaining captives (except when Obama releases dangerous terrorists), the Obama Justice Department has endorsed the Bush legal analysis of torture law in federal court, and Obama has endorsed state secrets, extraordinary rendition, and national-security surveillance (and the Bush stance on surveillance has since been reaffirmed by the federal court created to rule on such issues). Do these people ever get called on their hypocrisy?”
Rendition:
Michael Ledeen http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.asp?ref=/ledeen/ledeen200501060830.asp points out that the most questionable interrogation method of all is process called rendition, which is unlikely to be examined by the committee....
A week or so back, I criticized the Washington Post for giving a lot of space to an article that basically “outed” a CIA aircraft, and only in passing raised what I took to be the main issue, namely the transportation of captured terrorist suspects to countries where they could be interrogated more vigorously than in the United States. The Post journalist had briefly quoted Michael Scheuer, the recently retired CIA officer who became a best-selling author writing under “Anonymous,” to the effect that the philosophical subleties of this issue would not have disturbed his former employers. They would simply have saluted and done what they were told by the White House.
I doubt anyone in this administration — which, remember, already retreated from its earlier positions on interrogation methods permitted against captured terrorist suspects — is going to point out that the most controversial and ethically questionable method of all was developed during the Clinton administration in direct response to orders that came directly from the White House. “Rendition” was a Clinton creation, and was approved by Clinton’s lawyers, with no apparent cries of pain either from the Justice Department or from anyone in Congressional “oversight” committees. Gonzales might quietly make that point if anyone yells at him. It won’t register with the Democrats, but it might help the public understand the real world a little better.
[.........snip.........]
Read more about rendition here:
Friday, January 07, 2005
The Grand Inquisitor 2
http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/2005/01/grand-inquisitor-2-we-are-finally.html
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NRO Sunday, 05/10/2009
Scroll down to: 05/09 09:50 AM[]
Obama’s Commission Farce [Andy McCarthy]
http://corner.nationalreview.com/.
As Ed notes, this week’s Obama administration Embarrassing Friday Night News Dump included alerting the Washington Post that the administration will be reinstating military commission trials for captured terrorists. Typical of the Obamedia, the Post uncritically accepts the administration’s fig-leaf that Obama’s new and improved commissions will correct flaws that made Bush commissions (approved by Congress in 2006) unfair, and therefore so the claim goes the reinstatement should not be considered a gargantuan flippero from the Obama campaign position that the commissions were a kangaroo-court of a travesty. So Post reporter Peter Finn tells us:
The Obama administration is preparing to revive the system of military commissions established at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, under new rules that would offer terrorism suspects greater legal protections, government officials said. The rules would block the use of evidence obtained from coercive interrogations, tighten the admissibility of hearsay testimony and allow detainees greater freedom to choose their attorneys, said the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.
This is utter nonsense. Under the existing commission rules, miltary judges have always had the authority to suppress evidence obtained from coercive interrogations, and have done so. Moreover, under Bush, the appointing authority (the Defense Department component that oversees the commissions) dismissed the charges against one of the most significant al Qaeda detainees, Mohammed al-Qahtani, on the (absurd) ground that his interrogation was tantamount to torture. (I discussed it in a New York Times debate, here.) The admissibility of hearsay evidence has always been a red-herring hearsay is a staple of the international tribunals so admired by many in the Obama administration and the academic Left (a redundancy, I know), and the ability to get hearsay introduced in court is a large part of the reason for doing commission trials in the first place. (Otherwise American soldiers would have to be pulled away from combat operations to testify, and much evidence could never be used because it is given to us by foreign intelligence services on the condition that it not be disclosed.) And the bit about granting detainees “greater freedom to choose their attorneys” made me laugh so much my sides still ache American lawyers lined up from here to Gitmo to take up the cause of America’s enemies, including many from firms connected to Obama administration lawyers (including Attorney General Holder, whose firm has represented according to its website some 18 enemy combatants). Finn mentions none of this.
Finn goes on to say: “The military commissions have allowed the trial of terrorism suspects in a setting that favors the government and protects classified information, but they were sharply criticized during the administration of President George W. Bush. ‘By any measure, our system of trying detainees has been an enormous failure,’ then-candidate Barack Obama said in June 2008.’” Obama was not the only one. That same month, Holder claimed the commissions amounted to “the use of procedures that violate both international law and the United States Constitution.”
Well guess what? The Obama commissions will be, in every material way, exactly the same as the Bush Commissions: they will allow the trial of terrorism suspects in a setting that favors the government and protects classified information, and they will be criticized perhaps not quite as sharply, but sharply by the same hard Lefties that Obama and Holder were courting during the campaign.
The media will never tell you that the Bush commission trials (as I’ve previously recounted, here) provided elaborate protections for war crimes defendants, such as:
the presumption of innocence;
the imposition of the burden of proof on the prosecution;
the right to counselboth to a military lawyer provided at the expense of the American taxpayer and to a private attorney if the combatant chooses to retain one;
the right to be presented with the charges in advance of trial;
access to evidence the prosecution intends to introduce and to any exculpatory evidence known to the prosecution;
access to interpreters as necessary to assist in understanding the proceedings;
the right to a trial presumptively open to the public (except for portions sealed for national defense or witness security purposes);
the free choice to testify or decline to do so;
the right against any negative inference from a refusal to testify;
access to reasonably available evidence and witnesses;
access to investigative resources as “necessary for a full and fair trial”; and
the right to present evidence and to cross-examine witnesses.
Those are just some of the trial rights. There are, furthermore, elaborate sentencing procedures and a multi-tiered military appellate process at which a convicted combatant could get a guilty verdict or sentence reversed without ever having to appeal in the civilian courts. As Powerline’s Scott Johnson has pointed out, these protections for our current enemies markedly outstrip the paltry safeguards given the Nazis at Nuremburgnotwithstanding that Nuremburg, an international tribunal that afforded no right to American civilian court review, is celebrated by the Left (and was fondly recalled by candidate Obama) as a triumph of the “rule of law.”
The Obama campaign slandered the commissions, just like it slandered Gitmo, military detention, coercive interrogations, the state secrets doctrine, extraordinary rendition, and aggressive national-security surveillance. Gitmo is still open (and Obama and Holder now admit it’s a first-rate facility), we are still detaining captives (except when Obama releases dangerous terrorists), the Obama Justice Department has endorsed the Bush legal analysis of torture law in federal court, and Obama has endorsed state secrets, extraordinary rendition, and national-security surveillance (and the Bush stance on surveillance has since been reaffirmed by the federal court created to rule on such issues).
Do these people ever get called on their hypocrisy? 05/09 09:50 AM[]
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Dr. Pat Santy
Industry: Science
Occupation: M.D. (Psychiatry / Aerospace Medicine)
Saturday, November 26, 2005
Unpleasant Truths About Torture
http://drsanity.blogspot.com/2005/11/unpleasant-truths-about-torture.html
Societies tend to be as moral as they can afford to be. Why is torture always wrong? It’s been around as a central tenet for thousands of years. Why is it only wrong now?
