Posted on 05/14/2009 6:54:16 AM PDT by yankeedame
Scottish and Irish (and anybody else without a serious tan who does the same stuff).
My information is all drawn from George Borrow and Donn Byrne, not from first hand experience.
Is someone missing you on DU? You universally dislike all police and police departments?
Are you then a fan of the poor oppressed Somali pirates?
How about the Heinekin and bluejean Walmart raider guy from the Katrina aftermath?
If you think that this is like the Travelers, then we haven’t gotten across what they are like.
Considering the police had good reason to believe they had stolen property, I’d say they were justified in taking a few pictures. If they don’t want police surveillance, maybe they shouldn’t make a habit of theft.
And even if the police are taking things a little far, vandalism is not the civilized way to handle it. But these aren’t civilized people we’re talking about, so I guess it’s what you can expect.
;-)
Yes,I spent a total of about two weeks in NZ...mostly touring your lovely countryside (and visiting Rotorua...oh,the smell!) so I didn't pay much attention to whatever gang problem the country might have.I must say that I am surprised to hear you,a Guardian Angel,say that you have little problem with their sometimes violent ways...even if that violence is only among themselves.My understanding is that the Guardian Angels were originally formed in New York City to counter the violence in the subway.I've always assumed that the Angels' Charter would come out strongly against any kind of wanton violence or theft.But I could be wrong...
As for "privacy" and "peaceful enjoyment"...the circles in which *I* travel are not made up of criminals.I know of *no* member of my family or group of friends who have ever been charged with...let alone convicted of...anything more serious than a minor traffic violation.So,given that,I'd say we have a reasonable expectation of not being subjected to any kind of extraordinary police surveillance/monitoring.OTOH,I think that members of the Mafia,for example,can have no such expectation.Yes,it's true that gypsy clans aren't typically as bad as the Mafia,but.....
Oh, and since when are you so concerned about civil liberties? You’re demending something that goes beyond even what we have in America (where it is perfectly legal for the police to take pictures from helicopters), and we have some of the most generous civil liberties laws in the world.
But, IIRC, you don’t even believe in our concept of freedom of speech, which seems to me to be far more important than protection of criminals.
As a matter of fact she did...which you'd know...assuming you're a Python fan.I read once that among the cast she was known as...among other things...Carol Cleavage.
Tacky...I know!
> Is someone missing you on DU?
Now there’s a silly question. I won’t dignify it with a response.
> You universally dislike all police and police departments?
No, but I do dislike police departments that harass people with their helicopters at low altitude. And I’d dislike them whether they were buzzing your neighborhood or mine or the Gypsies’. That is an unacceptable intrusion into Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness — you know, those “things” that you Americans hold so dear.
(Or maybe you don’t... No Conservative would tolerate police harassment by helicopter, nor tolerate it when it happens to others either. So how many times did you vote last November? Did the nice ACORN people “help” you mark your ballots?)
And I am not a fan of arbitrary police surveillance: I like to think they need a jolly good reason to start taking broadcast-quality photos of neighborhoods at low altitude. I believe people have a fundamental right to privacy. Do you?
> Are you then a fan of the poor oppressed Somali pirates?
What do Somali Pirates have to do with this issue?
> How about the Heinekin and bluejean Walmart raider guy from the Katrina aftermath?
What does Katrina have to do with this issue?
islamists by extension....
Is this a jolly good enough reason? Or is theft no big deal to you?
From the article: "The incident happened at 10pm yesterday after weeks of aerial surveillance on the travellers’ site, where detectives believe stolen goods have been hidden."
We had a bad local case a few years ago. After getting paid a few grand for spraying roofing tar on a driveway, the Traveller (from the Williams bunch, although not the name he used) came back and told the elderly mark, a widow, that he had been notifed that there was some sort of toxic contaminant in the materials he had used. If the autorities found out, he told the woman, they would condemn her home. But, he could, for just $30,000.00(?), spray a "sealant" that would protect her from the toxic material, and keep the government from forcing her out of her home. But she had to pay him cash, and had to not tell anone, or else the government would find out.
When it was all said and done he got over $40,000.00 from her. The only reason the widow had anything left was that the small town bank, probably in violation of all sorts of privacy laws, called her daughter and told her that her mom was withdrawing tens of thousands of dollars in cash.
After the indictments were handed down, the perp's lawyer waltzed in and offered to pay 100% restitution -- if the charges went away. The DA had discovered that the guy had been busted, just weeks before, in another part of Texas, for the exact same scam. That DA had allowed the perp to pay restitution and walk. Our DA refused to drop the charges -- he said he wanted restitution too, but he could not just send the perp on to keep pulling the same scam on widows somewhere else.
> Oh, and since when are you so concerned about civil liberties?
I’ve always been concerned with civil liberties, when balanced against civil responsibilities.
When did you stop caring about civil liberties? That’s a much better question.
> You’re demending something that goes beyond even what we have in America (where it is perfectly legal for the police to take pictures from helicopters),
Yup. Here in New Zealand we have The Privacy Act 1993 — a far-reaching and enlightened piece of legislation that provides Kiwis with vastly superior protection against government and private misuse of information. We are also signators to the UN Declaration of Human Rights 1948 and, unlike the US, we have structured much of our body of law around that.
In practical terms we have a right to privacy, except under very narrow, very well defined circumstances. It’s brilliant.
If you are not receiving at least that level of protection in the US (you aren’t) then you, too, ought to be demanding something beyond what you are getting.
> and we have some of the most generous civil liberties laws in the world.
You do, but not generous enough, apparently. If your cops are allowed to do what the British cops were doing to the Gypsies, then they need to be brought into line under Civil Rights violations.
> But, IIRC, you don’t even believe in our concept of freedom of speech,
You do recall correctly. My/our concept of “freedom of speech” is indeed different to yours. I like ours much better: it protects the individual from being aggrieved better.
> which seems to me to be far more important than protection of criminals.
Alleged criminals. Innocent until proven guilty, remember?
> I won’t dignify it with a response.
And yet you did...
> I do dislike police departments that harass people with their helicopters
And yet there is nothing in this story about people being harassed with the helicopter. I would assume that when they say “spying” on the Gypsie camp it would mean some level of distance to provide stealth. Which means minimal disruption. These guys are freaking criminals who smashed public property. I hope next time it’s your backyard or your pocketbook that but God forbid NOT your family that these murderous thugs threaten.
I bet you are the first guy on the phone to the police when there’s a bump in the night. SOT
> What do Somali Pirates have to do with this issue?
By your failure to answer and silly return question it is obvious that you think they are just ‘sticking it to the man’. You think they are poor oppressed people just trying to get back their share of the world. Liberal Sot.
> What does Katrina have to do with this issue?
Again, your dodge of the question and underlying issue is an obvious attempt to hide your general fondness of lawness and lawbreakers. There is nothing conservative about hating the law or law enforcement. You are a liberal SOT.
You’ve tagged the wrong guy.
the police got a tip about a lot of stolen property at one location. they surveiled the location.
you've shown yourself to be a tinfoil-hatter with all this crap about black helicopters buzzing playgrounds taking pics of everyone.
gov't helicopters waking the kids up at night? HAHA! good one.
That sounds like the M.O. And good for your D.A.
She was a hit in Fawlty Towers...
Fawlty Towers? I consider myself to be something of an expert on Britcoms...Carol Cleveland was regularly featured on Monty Python but I don't recall her ever appearing on FT.
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