Posted on 05/10/2009 1:08:11 AM PDT by Ron C.
Or, we could try real self-government by real people.
Plus if going third party is the way to go then how come Ronald Reagan didn't go down that path
The most remarkable thing about your post, looked at in its entirety, is how backward-looking it is.
Republican Generals, fighting the last war.
Pretty much like the French before WWII.
Good question! IMHO, we have made it into a period during which the Republic will not best be served by two, big-tent parties. A Conservative Party that can pull 20-30% of the vote can Keep Republicans (1), Democrats (2) and Liberals (3) honest.
The problem is the process. The Democrats have not yet split along natural lines of ideology (which they will, someday). The Republicans are much closer, therefore a third party will hand the Democrats even more complete control than they have now.
Again, strictly imho, the key to the conundrum lies in local control and a new era of constitutional states rights. The entire Federal trend from FDR onward, is based upon an exension of the Interstate Commerce Clause ... not that much of a philosophical base when one comes to think about it.
I look around at my county GOP. Conservative. My district GOP, the same. My state GOP? The moderates have their wing but they’ve gone by the wayside. Right now the socons are dominant to the point of damaging the party. Then there are us three legged conservatives stuck in between. What RINO’s are you talking about?
I look at many other states. Conservative. Do we have moderates at the national level? Yes. Do they have power? Yes. But not all the power everywhere. There is a fight going on constantly at all levels. I’m not going to accept your inane accusations backed up by no facts. If you want to pontificate, run for Pope (no offense Catholics, tongue in cheek here).
As far as what I see at FR is a great number of whiners and naysayers and far fewer of the doers. Keyboard activism. Useless. Utterly useless. You want to get things done you need a vehicle that’s a part of the process, and that process is getting people elected. I don’t care what vehicle you choose, but choose a vehicle. Sitting on the keyboard at FR is not that vehicle. That is less than worthless.
The seeds of the cure lie within the nature of that process.
Preferably one not being driven a hundred miles an hour towards a cliff.
Romantic and wrong. You have to win elections, and that takes not just issues, but good candidates, cash, and campaign talent.
If conservatives run and win enough primaries, they inherit the GOP and its organization and ballot position. If conservatives cannot win inside the GOP, they will not find easier going outside of it.
Hey, that’s a legit arena of debate. The AIP may be a viable vehicle with the number of party ID voters dropping and independents rising. I don’t agree with you assessment the GOP ad hoc but I’ll never knock a viable conservative third party effort. I just think a number here need to start graduating beyond keyboard warriors and get their hands dirty.
If self-government is now a mere romantic notion, the republic truly is dead.
Funny thing is, if that is so, once again the only way to revive it is by the rise once again of principled self-government.
How about a dose of reality? A desire to return to the traditional American concept of self-government is not enough — you have to win elections. If conservatives cannot win GOP primaries, then it is delusional to think that we can win by the far harder course of leaving the GOP and establishing a third party. We are far better off and more powerful in the GOP than out of it.
I would surmise that running for office is quite low on most Conservatives' "to do" list as we have all been witness to the personal destruction wrought upon those who stand up and push Conservative ideals. Not only that, but I would wager that most Conservatives absolutely LOATHE the thought of being politicians and actually having to sit in the presence of those same people we despise.
I am going to paraphrase a post from earlier in saying that there are Conservatives who have well-grounded and principled positions which they are willing to promote, and then there are those Conservatives who are meant to lead other Conservatives in the fight. Not all of us yearn to become "political activists" and lead Conservatism, but are ready to follow and support such a leader with immeasurable fervor.
You're thinking at too high a level. Please. Just go to a Republican committee meeting. Running for office is the tip of the iceberg. 9/10 of Party work is way below that, and the people who do it control the party.
Power, but to what end? Your power is being gathered up under the current model to serve that you claim to detest. How practical is that?
Sorry webschooner - I guess the News/Activism forum splits into either/or in the topics area - I didn’t realize that.
“I just think a number here need to start graduating beyond keyboard warriors and get their hands dirty.”
We need to act, and do so in a strategic manner.
Allright, if Jim Rob wants it there, he is the site owner, so that’s fine. It’s just the first time I can recall seeing a vanity being in Breaking News.
“A conservative third party effort requires a super wealthy, credible conservative candidate for President — a Perot without Perot’s quirkiness and controlling personality. Since no such paladin has appeared on the scene, we must make do with the GOP, as Reagan so successfully did.”
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I agree! We must use the Republican party, independent and 3rd party efforts as we don’t have Teddy Roosevelt or Perot (neither of whom *won* as 3rd party/2nd party hopefuls). Even those men’s best efforts were 27.4%, enough to elect the other side, and then dissipating what they did in the future. Roosevelt ran as a Republican again, for instance and we’ve really not heard about Perot since then, the glory of the Reform party being Jesse Ventura (1998) - yikes!?
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The following from:
http://www.theodoreroosevelt.org/life/timeline.htm
June 18-22, 1912 Republican National Convention meets in Chicago and renominates incumbent Taft even though TR has won all but one primary and caucus. Roosevelt supporters bolt, charging “theft” of nomination.
August 5-7, 1912 Convention of new National Progressive party (nicknamed “Bull Moose” party) held in Chicago, adopts reform platform, and nominates TR for President and Governor Hiram W. Johnson of California for Vice President.
“This country will not be a good place for any of us to live in if it is not a reasonably good place for all of us to live in.”...”Laws are enacted for the benefit of the whole people, and must not be construed as permitting discrimination against some of the people.”
October 14, 1912 Shot in the chest while entering an automobile outside the Hotel Gilpatrick in Milwaukee, WI by would-be assassin John Nepomuk Schrank at about 8:00 p.m. Campaigning on the “Bull Moose” ticket, TR delivers a 90-minute speech at the Auditorium in Milwaukee before seeking medical attention. The bullet would never be removed. [Schrank was declared insane on November 13, 1912 and committed to the Northern State Hospital for the Insane at Oshkosh, WI, and died at the Central State Hospital in Waupun, WI on September 15,1943.]
“I did not care a rap for being shot. It is a trade risk, which every prominent public man ought to accept as a matter of course.”
November 5, 1912 Democrat Woodrow Wilson elected president over TR, who came in second, and Republican Taft. Roosevelt received the largest percentage of votes of any third party candidate.
Wilson won the election:
6,293,454 popular votes, 435 Electoral votes/40 states.
Roosevelt came in second:
4,119,538 votes , 88 Electoral votes/6 states.
(27.4% of the popular vote)
Taft came in third:
3,484,980 votes, 8 Electoral votes/2 states.
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[Skip forward 4 years.]
June 7-10, 1916 Republican and Progressive national conventions meet in Chicago, at same time in different halls, in an effort at a joint nomination.
June 10, 1916 Progressives nominate Theodore Roosevelt; Republicans nominate Charles Evans Hughs; TR declines Progressive nomination and eventually backs Hughes.
“We have room for but one loyalty, loyalty to the United States. We have room for but one language, the language of the Declaration of Independence and the Gettysburg Speech.”
February, 1917 Roosevelt’s requests permission of President Wilson to raise, equip and lead volunteer division for service in France in World War I.
“Peace is not the end. Righteousness is the end.”...”If I must choose between righteousness and peace I choose righteousness.”
May 19, 1917 President Wilson refuses Roosevelt’s service request.
1917 TR’s family supports the War effort. All four of his sons enlist. His daughter Ethel serves as a Red Cross nurse at the American Ambulance Hospital in Paris, accompanying her husband, surgeon Dr. Richard Derby.
“America’s Independent Party has discovered the cure. That’s smart remarketing of freedom and liberty.”
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This includes supporting Conservative Republicans. That must be and is part of AIP’s efforts. Because, as we clearly see and understand from American history - that is smart.
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