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To: Filo
Except you are claiming to have knowledge that you could only have if you were an omnipresent, omnipotent, all knowing being that reads minds.
“Nope. It's knowledge I have because I am capable of thinking and because I am open to it.” [excerpt]
When you said we've never seen a non-naturalistic answer … you used the word we not I

You cannot say what we haven't seen.

“Come now, don't be coy. We wouldn't be having this discussion if you agreed with my position. As such yours is perfectly clear.” [excerpt, bold emphasis mine]
Specifically (and only) that my position doesn't agree with yours.

Which is a non-issue.

Seriously, I'm starting to think you know nothing about logic.
“I know more than enough to know that people like you can play games with it in the guise of being thoughtful when, in fact, there is no thought involved.” [excerpt]
Unfortunately that hasn't stopped you from making one logical blunder after another.

Are you saying that religious people are stupid and unlearned?
“Effectively, yes.” [excerpt]
Do you believe that science would be further advanced and better off if religious people couldn't interfere?

Exactly what is my type?
“Science rejecting 'thumpers.” [excerpt]
Was Karl Popper a ‘science rejecting 'thumper’?

“Nonsense circular reasoning.” [excerpt]
Hehe, you might want to reconsider...

“Either the laws always existed or they came into being because of other laws.” [excerpt]
IOW, they didn't self create, which is exactly the point I was making. (A point you called ‘Nonsense circular reasoning’)

However, you are up against a problem here.

If the natural laws of physics were created by other laws that were not exactly identical to the ones we have now, then the current ones have a non-naturalistic origin, because naturalistic is defined by the laws of nature as they exist now.

This also brings up the possibility that the ‘other laws’ that may have brought into being our current ones, may in fact be the very essence of God himself.

“Some theorize that the laws were set during the earliest parts of the Big Bang, others think the Big Bang was governed by extant laws.” [excerpt]
The Big Bang is a super-natural event because it violates several known natural laws.

“Regardless, Science will, someday, answer those questions credibly. Religion never will, or can.” [excerpt, bold emphasis mine]
The way you authoritatively speak of what will and won't happen, I can't help but wonder, are you now a prophet?

“Religion is nothing short of the ultimate cop out.” [excerpt]
Do you think religion interferes with science and should be disallowed from influencing it?
136 posted on 04/23/2009 3:12:51 PM PDT by Fichori (The only bailout I'm interested in is the one where the entire Democrat party leaves the county)
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To: Fichori
You cannot say what we haven't seen.

Actually, I can. That whole gift of a brain thing. . .

Unfortunately that hasn't stopped you from making one logical blunder after another.

I haven't made any.

Following the facts lends itself to that kind of error-free existence.

Do you believe that science would be further advanced and better off if religious people couldn't interfere?

Another silly trap type question.

I believe that people's minds are inherently more open in the absence of religion and, therefore, scientific advancement is far more likely.

IOW, they didn't self create, which is exactly the point I was making. (A point you called ‘Nonsense circular reasoning’)

It's possible they did self-create in some sense, but not as you imply.

Regardless there is a reasoned, scientifically provable/acceptable explanation for them out there waiting to be discovered.

Neither God* nor the Flying Spaghetti Monster had anything to do with it.

If the natural laws of physics were created by other laws that were not exactly identical to the ones we have now, then the current ones have a non-naturalistic origin, because naturalistic is defined by the laws of nature as they exist now.

Untrue. Naturalistic explanations exist because laws exist but the specific configuration of those is irrelevant. If we find more or different laws then science will adapt.

The Big Bang is a super-natural event because it violates several known natural laws.

Known being the operative word. Nobody is willing to say that we know all that is knowable.

The difference between you and I is that you're willing to say "let's stop seeking and explain the rest as God*"

I see that as the cop-out it is. The way you authoritatively speak of what will and won't happen, I can't help but wonder, are you now a prophet?

Funny. Stupid, but funny.

Do you think religion interferes with science and should be disallowed from influencing it?

Religion interferes with intelligence and reason and should be disallowed period.

We should never pollute our minds with known drivel.
138 posted on 04/23/2009 3:34:06 PM PDT by Filo (Darwin was right!)
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