Attack Raises Debate on Guns for Sailors

Wall Street Journal ^ | April 11, 2009 | John W. Miller and Paulo Prada

[reaganaut1]

This week's pirate attack on an American vessel in the Indian Ocean has renewed a fierce debate in the shipping industry: Should sailors carry guns?

Many sailors support the idea. But ship owners and naval officials tend to say armed crews would only add to the volatile mix in a hostile environment.

[RC2]

Or....Three or four Black Water people. It would be a lot cheaper than paying millions in ransom. I understand that the insurance companies don’t like guns on the ship. Are they getting kickbacks from the pirates? You would think that they want the cargo protected. Pretty soon, the lawyers will dictate that our own Navy can’t carry guns. As it stands now, they have the guns, just can’t use them.

[meyer]

Should sailors carry guns?

The question should be 'why would sailors NOT carry guns'.

[Jonny foreigner]

why is there even a debate on this?
hand em out

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unfortunately not possible. because this would be a criminal act every time you enter a port. so as long as you are not willing to throw it into the sea every time before you enter the next port you will get arrested. how about telling “our” politicians that they should stop talking and let the Navy do their job without tied hands. but again not likely not happen. this is what you get when you let politicians run the show.

[DesertRhino]

How about this, pass a law that if a nation forbids firearms on their ships, they may not enter a US port, thatll bring em all in line. Of course, you’d need a government with American guts to propose such a law.

[rbosque]

This is a no-brainer, particularly if one sails through high-risk waters. Even our ancestors armed merchant ships!

[Lucretia Borgia]

Private security forces like that exist. Most ship owners are too cheap to pay for them.

[Hardastarboard]

It is only a “complex legal matter” if you report it. Otherwise don’t even slow down.

LOLOL!!! Great point!

[Right Wing Assault]

Pirates operating in East Africa often release crews unharmed after receiving big ransoms.

Same thing happens in Mexico. I am aware of a doctor who has been kidnapped 12 times down there and survived every time when ransom was paid. He has sent his children to the US to have a chance to grow up.

[Lucretia Borgia]

There are two big problems. One is that U.S.-flagged ships with all-U.S. crews have become rare and the Indonesian and Chinese pirates have gotten really good at planting inside men on ships they plan to hijack. Arm the crew, and you also arm the inside men.

The other is that supertanker owners are afraid gunfire might start a fire, causing them to lose the ship, the cargo, and the years of Exxon Valdez-type environmental lawsuits that will inevitably follow.

It all comes down to who you'd rather pay ransom and bribes to: pirates or Greenpeace. And the advantage the pirates have is that you can reason with pirates.

[Jonny foreigner]

How about this, pass a law that if a nation forbids firearms on their ships, they may not enter a US port, thatll bring em all in line. Of course, you’d need a government with American guts to propose such a law.

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sorry but this is just impossible. btw. the problem is not that a nation may forbids firearms on their ships (as long as you stay in international waters you are free to do what you want) it´s more about once you enter a port you have to obey to the law of the country where the port is located.
so there for you would be arrested because of arms smuggling, several individual (differs from country to country) laws of “private arms ownership”....

[chuckles]

My brother is a yacht captain on a 65ft fishing boat. It is private and goes all over the Caribbean with private fishing parties out of Galveston. He wouldn't think of leaving port without a couple of M-16’s( that's right, full auto) and plenty of ammo. He takes high worth clients from Fla Keys to Cancun. They don't want to be held hostage and have their boat sold for 10 cents on the dollar.

It is suicide to travel the Gulf and not be able to defend yourself, even from other Americans.

[jonrick46]

Merchant ships were equipped with guns like this during WWI and WWII:

[Jonny foreigner]

My brother is a yacht captain on a 65ft fishing boat. It is private and goes all over the Caribbean with private fishing parties out of Galveston. He wouldn’t think of leaving port without a couple of M-16’s( that’s right, full auto) and plenty of ammo. He takes high worth clients from Fla Keys to Cancun. They don’t want to be held hostage and have their boat sold for 10 cents on the dollar.
It is suicide to travel the Gulf and not be able to defend yourself, even from other Americans.

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but this is a dangerous game because once you enter the territorial waters of a country which has laws against this kind of weapons (btw. i guess every more or less civilized country has laws against full autos or weapons owned by forreigners in generall) you can an will get arrested if they catch you.

[downtownconservative]

My sentiments exactly. A squad of Marines (or former Marines) in charge of a well stocked armory would serve as both a deterent and an operational security presence.

These thugs are enemies of human-kind and deserve no quarter, have no rights to life or liberty, and should be killed in the same way you would kill a rabid animal.

Our seeming ineptitude at coming to grips with the essence of this problem frustrates me to no end.

[STONEWALLS]

.....that’s what I’m talking about!.....actually that might be a 20 millimeter mount that would shoot down aircraft too.

[Jonny foreigner]

My sentiments exactly. A squad of Marines (or former Marines) in charge of a well stocked armory would serve as both a deterent and an operational security presence...

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i agree that this would work but this is just simple not possible in our world. first (considering they are US citizen for example) you would need a permittion from the US to enter US ports armed with this kind of weapons. and even if you would get this you would not be allow you to enter forreign ports with the same weapons. so how do you trade for example lets say china if they don´t allow your ships into their ports because of this.

[Wonder Warthog]

"Merchant Marine Sailors are not trained to be War Fighters."

Neither are the pirates. I'm sure American sailors have "some" exposure to weapons, though foreigners probably don't.

[chuckles]

I hate to say it, but I think the governments that see a 65ft yacht pull into port to party and spend money, most likely aren't checked for contraband. I don't know if it's actuall payola, or just a courtesy for rich people that trade in the area all the time. He told me the only time he has ever felt afraid was when he had to pull into Cuba to ride out a hurricane. He was scared then for sure. The soldiers stayed on the docks for the most part, but one finally did board his boat. You won't find the guns without a dog.

He describes it like some here describe being judged by 12 instead of carried by 6. There are many boats that disappear each year and the capt shot and thrown overboard just to get the boat. They sand off the name and repaint another one and sell the boat in Jamaica or some such place. To buy a used boat anywhere, even in the US, without a pedigree check is not advised.

[Jonny foreigner]

I hate to say it, but I think the governments that see a 65ft yacht pull into port to party and spend money, most likely aren’t checked for contraband. I don’t know if it’s actuall payola, or just a courtesy for rich people that trade in the area all the time....

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you are correct you have a fat chance (if you are owner of a private yacht that you will never get controlled in your whole life). i´ll leave this up to discussion if this is good or bad in times of drug,arms.... smuggling. i was only saying that your brother commits a criminal act and there for can and will get arrested IF they catch him. for me i´m european i have sailed several times from italy,to croatia to greece..... and was never controlled by “water police” or once i enered a port. but this does not mean this could not happen. so if he has bad luck he will go to jail because of that... that´s why i said he is playing a dangerous game because he is commiting an illegal act.

[downtownconservative]

That’s where the armory would come into play. In port or non-international waters, the arms could be locked up. The ship itself is always deemed sovereign US territory, no matter where it is located.