Posted on 03/27/2009 7:07:22 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
MOUNT HELIX — A man armed with a large knife was shot by El Cajon police at a busy intersection Friday afternoon after numerous non-lethal attempts by officers to stop him failed.
The man, whose name has not yet been released, led police on a mile-long uphill chase on Avocado Boulevard, running all the way, said police Lt. Steven Shakowski. Police said they received a call about 11:50 a.m. about a man carrying a knife similar to a hunting knife near Chase Avenue and Avocado Boulevard in El Cajon.
The man was running with the knife and waving it around, Shakowski said. The area is near businesses, and police were concerned for the public's safety, he said. Officers followed the man up Avocado to Horizon Hills Drive. When he refused to drop the knife, they fired two stinging beanbag rounds at him. They also shot him with a Taser, an electric stun gun.
None of it stopped the man, who continued running up Avocado with the knife, Shakowski said. Two more beanbags were fired.
The man was still running up Avocado as officers fired more beanbag rounds. By the time he reached the intersection of Avocado and Fuerte Drive, just outside of El Cajon city limits, he had been hit eight times, to no effect, Shakowski said.
Fearing he might enter the businesses at the intersection, police tried to cut off the man, who had run the one-mile uphill distance in about 13 minutes, the lieutenant said. The man then raised the knife and charged at the officers. Four officers opened fire with their pistols, firing at least six shots. The man fell, mortally wounded.
The intersection of Avocado and Fuerte was expected to be closed for several hours as an investigation continues. So far, investigators don't know why the man was in the street waving the knife, Shakowski said.
Henry Martinez, a witness who was stopped at a red light at Avocado and Fuerte, said the man appeared tired and was almost stumbling.
Martinez said he didn't personally feel that the man posed an immediate threat to officers. He said he heard multiple shots fired.
Police said all the officers involved in the shooting are veterans of the department.
That’s how I pick up chicks.
A person with a knife can cover at least 21 feet of distance before a skilled gun handler can clear leather and get an (one) aimed shot off. Service pistols are not nuclear weapons, and quite often do not result in one-shot stops, particularly with those on drugs or mentally ill. So when your first shot either misses, or fails to stop the assailant as he rushes you and cuts your throat, you’ll have a few seconds before expiring to congratulate yourself on your restraint.
LOL.
Guns are lethal force. If you shoot someone, you shoot to kill. That’s it.
You don’t shoot people in the leg. Even a shot to the leg has a very high chance of causing a fatal wound. Nick the femoral artery and the guy will bleed out very quickly.
This is not Hollywood. You shoot center mass to stop the threat. If center mass does not work, you then take a head shot. Anyone with any firearms experience knows that.
Hardly. I wouldn't even count on a leg shot from a pistol to immobilize the attacker. Even rifle shots to the pelvis are not reliable to stop an attacker.
But I agree with your larger point. Once the decision to use lethal force has been made, that force will be used until the threat is ended.
Exactly. A knife at 21 feet is as dangerous as a suspect with a gun. It is well known that gang members in prison practice and plan to charge from 21 feet, bent at the waste and reach down and touch one hand on the ground momentarily as they charge because the officer trains to shoot center mass. By doing this the criminal will be below the center of mass height, if their hand actually touches the ground when they charge and the officer’s first shot will miss them.
Also, some people here seem to have Hollywood-influenced conceptions of what service pistols are capable of, either with reagrd to accuracy in high stress encounters, or with "stopping power."
This guy took a 9mm round TO THE FOREHEAD, but still had to be restrained physically by multiple officers.
When your defense for the act of killing is that it's in Police training, thats not right. If police only use their training rules, not common sense, they do not deserve to be on the force. If these guys decided to kill this man when there was another option, then they have broken there duty to uphold the Constitution, which protects life.
I also never stated that the knife is not a deadly weapon. I was pointing out that its effective range is very small compared to the gun. That being so, the police can shot from a distance much greater than the range of the knife, and hence could shot one at the time making a wounding hit. If that failed, while still out of effective range of the knife, they could then escalate to the kill him now mind set.
Keep in mind there are basically two living witnesses viewpoints that were reported on. #1 from the shooting police officers, and #2 from the civilian who claims the man was not an immediate danger. Posters on this site stated that that witness is not qualified to make that statement, something akin to only a police officer who is trained can make that determination, Ha, are not most people expected (via our Right to bear arms)to be able to judge behavior of people? Cant civilians have “street smarts”? The Founding Fathers believed so, and did not restrict your Rights for fear you have not gone thru police training in judging situations.
Please dont tell me you believe only the trained elites are capable of deciding life and death matters, and all other opinions must be discounted based on the fact that they dont have training in “police thought” authored by some liberal.
Remember Police drag away pro-life protesters, that are urging woman and girls to not kill their baby. Cops are sent to round us up when we try to save lives. If only we had thinking cops that held the words of the Constitution and Bill of Rights above there liberal political masters. Cops have protected baby killing abortionists clinics. Using the police to do such immoral things is starting to effect the police mentality across the ranks, it is perverted, and will get worse as more good cops retire, and more wacked out liberal are appointed as chiefs. Cops with morals are fired if they express it, they got to work with affirmative action gays, they got to do thing that are against morals, no wonder so many are becoming corrupt. How many Pro-life protesters do you have to arrest to get into hell?
When will the cops round you up? how long did it take for the Berlin Police force to start rounding up folks because of race? I will tell you how long, about as long as it took the Nazi party loyal police chief to sign the order. The cops at that point were armed, mindless, robots, only following orders. The moral good ones had been rooted out.
what if the cops all said we uphold the Founding fathers intent, we will get criminals, investigate crooked politicians, and arrest, we refuse to enforce anti 2nd Admemdment laws, refuse to protect abortionists, refuse to enforce punitive tax laws that are hurting the folks? what if cops used smarts instead of robot actions?
back on this, lets see what happens, was it two shots, or 20? was he shot while on the ground or standing? was he just standing, or running towards people when shot?
a person died today, murder or justified, lets not jump to conclusion and say the police are right, and the civilian witness is not credible based on his civilianess.
Never take anything from the government at face value, always investigate.
All I have to say to this is, you first, Steve Austin.
As for all your other irrelevant conjecture, meh.
Effective......... ;-)
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