Posted on 03/27/2009 7:07:22 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
MOUNT HELIX — A man armed with a large knife was shot by El Cajon police at a busy intersection Friday afternoon after numerous non-lethal attempts by officers to stop him failed.
The man, whose name has not yet been released, led police on a mile-long uphill chase on Avocado Boulevard, running all the way, said police Lt. Steven Shakowski. Police said they received a call about 11:50 a.m. about a man carrying a knife similar to a hunting knife near Chase Avenue and Avocado Boulevard in El Cajon.
The man was running with the knife and waving it around, Shakowski said. The area is near businesses, and police were concerned for the public's safety, he said. Officers followed the man up Avocado to Horizon Hills Drive. When he refused to drop the knife, they fired two stinging beanbag rounds at him. They also shot him with a Taser, an electric stun gun.
None of it stopped the man, who continued running up Avocado with the knife, Shakowski said. Two more beanbags were fired.
The man was still running up Avocado as officers fired more beanbag rounds. By the time he reached the intersection of Avocado and Fuerte Drive, just outside of El Cajon city limits, he had been hit eight times, to no effect, Shakowski said.
Fearing he might enter the businesses at the intersection, police tried to cut off the man, who had run the one-mile uphill distance in about 13 minutes, the lieutenant said. The man then raised the knife and charged at the officers. Four officers opened fire with their pistols, firing at least six shots. The man fell, mortally wounded.
The intersection of Avocado and Fuerte was expected to be closed for several hours as an investigation continues. So far, investigators don't know why the man was in the street waving the knife, Shakowski said.
Henry Martinez, a witness who was stopped at a red light at Avocado and Fuerte, said the man appeared tired and was almost stumbling.
Martinez said he didn't personally feel that the man posed an immediate threat to officers. He said he heard multiple shots fired.
Police said all the officers involved in the shooting are veterans of the department.
What the police needed was a bola, like they use in Argentina. They can be easily fabbed, and with a little practice can pretty smartly immobilize a person. The only twist would be to make the ropes out of something hard to cut with a knife.
Give him 2 points for being persistent. Too bad he forfeited the match.
!3 minutes? Even I can do better than a 13-minute mile, and I'm a fat 44-year old with asthma and creaky knees.
Hell, with cops shooting at me, I could probably do it in under 10:00.
Those bean bags leave a heck of a welt if they hit ya solid.. I was a miler in HS, meep meeep.. but I can still wheeze and creak with the best of them now..
I drive that route a lot, and it’s a good sized hill. Once he got to Fuerte if he had crossed he could have walked into several businesses there. That’s probably why they pulled the hammer then. Thanks for posting.
Oh, well done.
I'd like to no how many??? should the cops have not slowly escalated this abit more.
bean bags, tasers, ok, non lethal , them move up to multiple shots? not like he had a hostage at knife point here.
I would think that after the bean bags and taser failed (and not knowing why they did not all charge him at once, clubs swing) why did they not try to place one shot in the leg? ok, it dont bring him down, then try one more at the leg. You would always have the option to fire more, if the man with two shot legs still tries to run for it.
this looks to me if there was a large number of shots fired it could have been a choice by the cops to become executioners rather than defenders of the public (and the man was a member of the public, regardless of his mental condition or drugs if any)
There should have been one shot to the leg as the next step. it was not like this was a fleeing killer or anything, just one guy who was having a bad day, he should not be executed for that. that's what a large number of multiple shots would mean. untrained or not brave cops, not knowing how to control their fire? need more details until I call the cops justifed. If they were trying to hit him to kill him, they should be charged with murder in some cases
Oh, jeez...
What’s on TV today?
i am just bring up the possibility that maybe less drastic action could have been taken, Multiple shots fire at a guy that does not have a weapon that can project much farther than his arm causes me to suspect something ain't right? Did they shoot him while he was falling on the ground?
this is too early, not enough details to decide if this was justified or not.
life was taken, I want to know if there was something else that could have been done. Life liberty etc... Could something been done to save that life? maybe, lets find out more. maybe it was justified, lets find out?
I dont get TV Guide, cant you afford your own????
Uh, like tasers and beabags?
Multiple shots fire at a guy that does not have a weapon that can project much farther than his arm causes me to suspect something ain't right?
You do know that a knife is a "lethal weapon." The fact that you try to minimize its danger tells me you're talking out of your ass.
Use of force doctrine in any PD is that, when confronted with a threat that justifies use of lethal force, you use the amount of force required to end the threat.
When the knife-wielding lunatic escapes, while cops are trying to take out his moving legs, to, say, decapitate a 5 year-old girl, the problems with your tactics will be made apparent.
Police aren't mental health workers, nor are they daredevils or kamikazes. They are (hopefully) public servants tasked with maintaining public order and doing what they can to protect the public at large. They are not required to risk their own lives and safety to ensure the most peaceful possible outcome.
Whatever this person's problem was, the mistakes, as tragic as they are, were made long before his encounter with the police. Shooting to wound, especially the legs, is wrong tactically for many reasons.
Here's a tip: if you run at police with a knife, after being shot with bean bags and tasered, the vast majority of the public will view your death by police gunfire as justified.
Merely having a knife in your posession isn't a crime, or shouldn't be anyway. Running is also no crime. There were many avenues open to these cops that they didn't take, one I already mentioned, the second would be too wait until he got closer, if he was charging, and all of them use their night sticks on him, disarming him first.
He was killed with no violent act committed by him and I always have a problem with that. Had he been armed with a gun and pointed it at the cops, fine, but pointing a knife doesn't have quite the danger aspect of pointing a gun.
Until I here more of this story, if ever, I will say these cops were not justified in shooting a man armed with a knife in this situation, unlike the story of the guy killing his sisters when killing him saved the life of one of the sisters.
Fearing he might enter the businesses at the intersection, police tried to cut off the man, who had run the one-mile uphill distance in about 13 minutes, the lieutenant said. The man then raised the knife and charged at the officers. Four officers opened fire with their pistols, firing at least six shots. The man fell, mortally wounded.
Seems justified to me.
They should’ve just shot the knife out of his hand.
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