3... 2 ... 1... until mnehrling finds some way to blow my posts out of the water :0)
Seriously, good point about paranoia, well made.
I doubt that DT as written could be successfully used on this forum. We DO get shills (classic builders of fake consensus), but I believe this Forum is well armored against them. This is because FReepers instinctively refer to an external touchstone on most issues (e.g the Constitution, the Bible, scientific papers, sourced links and so on).
But we do get dishonest techniques - ad hominem attacks, and prior constraint of debate. They are always obvious (and annoying) when used - no secret mind techniques, no possible cause for paranoia.
With respect however, I can’t agree that it could ever be a good idea to use manufactured ‘consensus’ to get things going the way one wants. Doing this must surely pose a moral hazard?
By which I mean: it’s not bad just because it’s dishonest, but also because in the end you would end up relying on slippery group dynamics rather than having and holding good ideas.
Better to make sure one’s arguments are good, one’s position is sound: train yourself to stand your ground and repeat the truth. This has got to be better strategy.
(Disclaimer: I have no experience in moving groups either with truth or trickery)
This explains how people could allow the unbelievable could occur. It explains how logic can be disregarded and the person speaking the truth ostracized. It confuses and infuriates me but knowing how it works gives me power to see the reality and perhaps combat it with calm facts. Frustration over people not understanding the truth usually makes me react with anger. The DT is purely manipulation. A narcissistic personality could and would easily utilize such a technique to get their way, if nothing else just to get their way. Power.
"Better to make sure one’s arguments are good, one’s position is sound ..." Um, it's above having actual values. Rush has been lecturing on values over policy for a week now. You apparently haven't captured the message! When you say one's position is sound, what you might want to say--since the fundamentals are less subject to twisting and dissembling techniques-- is 'the values are sound, based in moral character. So, if one uses dishonest techniques then the vaslues have been usurped to serve the lesser object of 'winning' above all else. We see the Democrat party has sunken to this low deacdes ago and now they are at the bottom opf a values cesspool thinking they smell rose as they dodge the result of swilling effluent for so long that they cannot recognize honesty or godly morals.