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To: mefistofelerevised

The case will come down to whether the deputy had a lawful right to enter the cell?

Yes, she threw one shoe at him and was preparing to throw the next.

Did she put her hands up in a fighting stance?

Yes.

Is he required to wait for a person to throw a punch or is it reasonable for someone to assume a person “putting up their dukes” might throw an actual punch?

I say a reasonable police officer (note, the standard for excessive force claims is what a reasonable Police Officer believes, not what a reasonable newspaper reader believes) would believe that she was getting ready to throw a punch, scratch his face, etc..

If he believed that the punch, or other form of assault, was coming then he has the lawful right to use force.

That kick is trained in the academy to create distance and halt someone from punching you.

Head and hair hold takedowns are standard fare when trying to get someone on the ground and into handcuffs.

She received two blows once on the ground and while her hands were beneath her body, where they can’t be cuffed, and once the hands came out from under her, she received no further blows.

If he was just pissed off about the shoe hitting him he would have done a lot more to her than a kick and two strikes...

But since it’s a “girl” it looks worse....had it been a grown man nobody would care.


155 posted on 02/28/2009 12:03:56 PM PST by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig (There once was a dream called, "Hippy Beat Down." The mere whisper of if caused cops to cry.")
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To: TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig
Go back to your village, they are missing you.

I say a reasonable police officer (note, the standard for excessive force claims is what a reasonable Police Officer believes, not what a reasonable newspaper reader believes) would believe that she was getting ready to throw a punch, scratch his face, etc..

From 10 feet away, all he would have had to do was, SHUT THE DOOR!!! I doubt she would be able to scare the pants off this jackboot through a 2 inch thick steel door. And if she could, this guy needs to find another line of work, like selling used cars.

I will not excuse this behavior and give this guy a pass. This is just another small incremental step towards a totalitarian police state. It needs to be stopped in its tracks. Before rebellion is necessary.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams

160 posted on 02/28/2009 12:33:45 PM PST by rednesss (fascism is the union,marriage,merger or fusion of corporate economic power with governmental power)
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To: TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig

“I say a reasonable police officer (note, the standard for excessive force claims is what a reasonable Police Officer believes, not what a reasonable newspaper reader believes)...”

I assure you, if I am on the jury, that will NOT be the standard I use when I find him guilty.

“But since it’s a “girl” it looks worse....had it been a grown man nobody would care.”

It wasn’t a grown man - it was a little kid.

More to the point, if you were on tape using the same moves on your own 15-yo daughter, you would be jailed for child abuse.


161 posted on 02/28/2009 12:57:07 PM PST by patton (America is born in Iceland, and dies in California)
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To: TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig

Maybe you can defend a bully who isn’t a real man, I can’t.


168 posted on 02/28/2009 3:19:44 PM PST by mefistofelerevised
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To: TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig
she threw one shoe at him and was preparing to throw the next.

Actually she lightly tossed her left shoe toward him using her foot. She did not retract her leg, so the shoe had almost no velocity. From the trajectory, the shoe might have reached the height of his knee at best. Yet your description makes it sound like she was genuinely trying to cause the officer physical harm by throwing the shoe forcefully at him. What you describe simply did not happen.

Did she put her hands up in a fighting stance? Yes.

No, she crossed her arms until the officer raced into the cell, at which point she uncrossed her arms in an obviously instinctive move to protect herself from his onslaught.

She received two blows once on the ground and while her hands were beneath her body, where they can’t be cuffed, and once the hands came out from under her, she received no further blows.

Again, no. Look at the video. She put her left hand forward to protect herself from impacting the floor. The second officer grabbed that hand and pulled it around behind her. While the video could be clearer, it appears to me that the first officer then took that left hand from the second officer, and the second backed off slightly. The first officer then hit her twice with his right fist while he was holding her left wrist with his left hand. While he did that, the second officer, who by that time is clearly no longer holding onto her left wrist, holds her head or shoulder down with his left hand.

Just to be clear: The first officer hit her twice while she was face down, and he was holding her left hand behind her back. Neither officer was in any danger of being assaulted while the first one beat her.

But since it’s a “girl” it looks worse....had it been a grown man nobody would care.

I would.

187 posted on 02/28/2009 6:47:56 PM PST by TChad
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