Posted on 02/19/2009 5:19:10 AM PST by GBA
Flight Data Show Response to Loss of Speed Resulted in Deadly Stall That Downed Plane
Investigators examining last week's Continental Connection plane crash have gathered evidence that pilot commands -- not a buildup of ice on the wings and tail -- likely initiated the fatal dive of the twin-engine Bombardier Q400 into a neighborhood six miles short of the Buffalo, N.Y., airport, according to people familiar with the situation.
The commuter plane slowed to an unsafe speed as it approached the airport, causing an automatic stall warning, these people said. The pilot pulled back sharply on the plane's controls and added power instead of following the proper procedure of pushing forward to lower the plane's nose to regain speed, they said. He held the controls there, locking the airplane into a deadly stall, they added.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
This is ridiculous. The first lesson for any student pilot learning to fly is that you lower the nose and then add power if close to stalling. The absolute last thing you do is raise the nose.
ML/NJ
No kidding! This is the first article or news report I've read where the correct aircraft, a Q400, is reported. For days it was a Dash 8; although built by the same company, is a much different aircraft than the Q400.
“I stopped flying the turboprops years ago.”
I am a private pilot and I agree. I had an extremely frightening experience on a Beech 19 about 9 years ago.
The pilot, who looked like he was all of 17 years old flew us right into a thunderstorm. I really though the plane would come apart.
That pretty much did it for me.
What I am telling you is the training I received and passed on in turn is to fly the instruments.
Part of the training received is unusual attitude recovery is to assess what the gages are saying. The assumption is all the gages are working and your seat of the pants gages aren’t.
When I was flying, the only gages I questioned were the RMI (I can’t be that farr off course) and the gas gage (There’s got to me more gas in the bag than that)
The time for gage troubleshooting is when safely on the deck.
>>I never liked flying, but at this point I’m about ready to give it up.<<
How many commuter flights have happened in the last five years? How many have crashed?
I rest my case.
>>But a piano doesn’t have motors..<<
Or wings that can actually push you down. People don’t understand that in a car, the fastest you can accelerate downward is the speed at which you fall. You can feel weightless, but that is about it.
In an airplane, the wings can PUSH you down HARD. That is how a friend of mine, a flight attendent, in bad weather, was slammed against the ceiling of the cabin and then slammed agains the armrest of one of the seats and broke his arm.
An aircraft can lose altitude shockingly fast if it’s engines and aerodynamics are helping the process.
I know you know that. I’m just amplifying what you said... ;)
Member the ATR-72's?
Their is an airfoil designer Harry Ribblett that let it be known he thought their airfoil section selection was part the problem and the FAA ignored him.
There is one NACA series airfoils ( 64-212) that have spanwise flow issues at stall, and can get nasty, but I do not think this bird had one of those.
But why is no one asking this question? Ice can be nasty on an airfoil, he may have pulled back, but what if the section was not forgiving and it added to the problem?
Your case is completely sound. I don’t deny that.
Go to 8:50 in the video. The woman is holding the prop upside down.
I wonder, then, if he had too much confidence in the airplane’s supposed capabilities....to the point where he acted contrary to training.
At 16:00 you see them pull back on the stick briefly during a stall. The video goes on to explain (at 17:30) that this is the proper procedure.
Is this not the original thing done by the doomed flight?
I can't think of many more basic principles for a pilot to thoroughly, completely understand than stalls and recovery from them.
The point is that your butt is far more likely to fail you than your instruments.
The Air Force teaches the same lesson. Trust your instruments, not your butt. Your butt wants to kill you.
As much time as this pilot had I can’t believe he would have knowingly and purposely pulled back on the yoke when he realized his airspeed was critically low. It’s just absolutely second nature when airspeed falls to drop the nose. One of the things they do on a flight review is put you under a hood where you have no reference to the outside world and then put the aircraft in a number of unusual attitudes from which you must recover using only the instruments, no visual cues. Even VFR pilots undergo this training and testing, let alone an IFR rated pilot. The absolutely first thing you do when you find your airspeed down or falling is drop the nose. It’s the first thing you check, along with how level the wings are, when you find yourself in an unusual attitude. Level the wings, drop the nose, then set about figuring out what else you need to do to return to normal level flight.
I don’t deny for an instant that the pilot could very well have done any number of things that aggravated an already bad situation and resulted in the spin. But I just don’t think any pilot with his experience would have pulled back on the stick if he had an indication his airspeed was too low.
In any event, my heart and prayers certainly go out to him and his family and friends. Goodness knows I’ve made some silly mistakes in flight and I know how quickly things can go downhill. Like one of my instructors years ago, 1960, used to say, “I’d rather be down here wishing I were up there than up there wishing I were down here!”
Ah yes. It's all the regional's fault because they aren't "willing to pay" the 6-figure income of a veteran 747 pilot for a 40-passenger plane.
By the same logic, isn't it really the passengers' fault for being unwilling to pay $6,000 each for their tickets? After all, you have to be willing to pay for experience.
Every Baptist hymn it knows.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.