Posted on 02/16/2009 10:55:31 PM PST by Coleus
Benedict XVI’s announcement will allow millions of people to see the linen cloth that according to tradition was wrapped around the body of Jesus after his death, showing that “mysterious Face, which silently speaks to the hearts of men, inviting them to see in it the face of God.”
Vatican City (AsiaNews) – For 40 days in the spring of 2010 it will be possible to see the Shroud of Turin which, according to tradition, is the cloth in which the body of Jesus was wrapped after his death and which shows the marks of the Passion and Crucifixion as told by the Gospels.
Benedict XVI, who owns the Shroud, made the announcement yesterday when he met the participants to the pilgrimage organised by the Archdiocese of Turin led by the local archbishop, Card Severino Poletto, who is the custodian of the Shroud. The Pope spoke about to the display in relation to the diocese’s pastoral journey, which in 2010 will be devoted to a “closer contemplation of the mystery of the Passion of Christ.”
“In such a context I am happy to fulfill your great expectations and accept your bishop’s wish, allowing the Shroud to be solemnly put on display in the spring of 2010,” said the Pope. “It will be a most propitious occasion, I am certain, to contemplate that mysterious Face, which silently speaks to the hearts of men, inviting them to see in it the face of God.” For the Church the Shroud is not a “relic” since it has never actually said whether it is the linen cloth in which the body of the dead Christ was wrapped or not.
At the time of the last display in 2000 (previous ones took place in 1973 and 1998) John Paul II referred to it as “icon”. At the same time though, the Church has never denied that the linen cloth might be the one the Evangelists talk about in the Gospels. On several occasions the Church has allowed the Shroud to undergo scientific tests, with contradictory results that are still source of great debate among scholars around the world.
Prove God exists.
I have a question somewhat related to the manner of wrapping.
If I put a die over my body, lie down in bed and cover myself with a sheet in order to transfer my features to the sheets over and under me, I will not get a portrait-like image. The face, for example, will not look like my face looks on a photograph. Instead, the image on the sheet will be a “potatohead”: the distance between the ears will be larger than it appears in a frontal photograph. That is because the sheet follows the distance between the eye and the ear around the length of the temple, while the temple viewed from the front is foreshortened in photographs.
The image of Jesus on the shroud is proportioned like a photograph, with the distance between the eye and the ear (or the sidecurls) foreshortened. It is not consistent with any kind of wrapping or covering that would transfer the coloring agent by contact.
Any thoughts?
Another researcher has also questioned the concept that the amount of carbon 14 in the atmosphere is a constant. That individual felt that the amount present is impacted by volcanic eruptions which increase the Carbon 14 content in the atmosphere, and by extension - samples.
It also seems improbable that the Shroud, being confined in a container which was burned in a fire did not receive a fresh infusion of carbon 14 contaminant at the time of that incident.
I have also read about the errors in the sampling methods and agree with you there.
Palynological studies on the pollen indicate the Shroud spent time in area of Jerusalem. Sample of pollen taken from the Shroud area around the head of the image came from an eastern Mediterranean plant which produce wicked thorns - the type of thing the mock crown Christ had on his head may have been made from.
When you combine all this with the anatomical evidence, the inability to explain the method in which the image was made, the peculiar nature of the image, and evidence from the weave of the original Shroud material, the evidence is very compelling that this MIGHT have been the burial Shroud of Christ.
??????????????
So what?
They simply couldn't have done it. Their knowledge of human anatomy and the impact of crucifixion on a victim was not known to them.
Neither of us can prove that God exists, we only have faith. However. in this physical world we have the technology to prove or disprove the authenticity of the Shroud.
We should utilize that technology.
Re: the bioplastic theory
The bioplastic theory in which hundreds of years of bacteria live, excrete, and die on the fibers of the Shroud, adding enough newer C14 to that already present to skew the test results by 1300 years fails on several grounds. First, the type of bacteria that lives on linen eats the linen, absorbing the C14 of the linen and therefor would have a C14 date approximately the same as it’s food, the Shroud. Secondly, to actually skew the date, assuming that the bacteria actually does injest contemporary Carbon, then some of that “bioplastic” would be just as old as the base material of the Shroud, and some would be progressively younger until you get to some that died yesterday. The amount of this “bioplastic” would have to weigh as much or more than the original weight of the Shroud to skew the date by 1300 years. Finally, it just is not there. The fibers of the Shroud have been examined microscopically, including optical, spectrographically, and scanning electron microscopy, and both the “bioplastic” and any Carbon soot pollution are just not found. Once it was understood that what was tested was a mixture of about 60% to 40% newer citton added to original linen flax, all of these pollution theories became moot. We know what skewed the date. We need look no further.
Re: We should utilize that technology
That’s the point, Trumandogz. We are! So far both 20th and 21st Century technology has been unable to explain or duplicate the Shroud.
I think it would be MORE of a miraculous object if we were to prove beyond doubt that the Shroud is medieval. If it were Jesus’ burial cloth, then we would at least have an explanation of how it was created: it covered a man who was associated with miracles! If it’s medieval, we would have to answer the question how 13th or 14th century technology could do something we can’t do seven hundred years later.
Hmmm.
Wish I could remember the book I read. The book was in English but the author had a Spanish sounding name and it came out about 15 years ago or so. I tried Amazon but no luck - too much on the Shroud out there.
You're right...
The image on the cloth is not a photograph or coloring agent contact print. It is a terrain map where the intensity of the image is inversely proportional to the distance. In other words, the closer the cloth was to the skin of the man, the darker the image. Visibly, the image fades into obscurity at about 3-5 cms... but with computer enhancement, greater depth and detail beyond that normally visible limit has been exposed—the man on the cloth is circumcised—so sorry for the pun.
If you just drape a cloth over a dead body, the cloth will attempt to follow the contours of the body and distort any image caused by whatever modality of causation as you describe.
However, if you take about "an hundred weight" of bulk spices and herbs (that's actually about 112 Lbs. of fresh and dried plant materials that would occupy several cubic feet of space) and pack them horizontally around the body leaving the body exposed both upwards and downwards, then draw the cloth up and over the entire set up, the cloth would be supported above the body by these herbs and only touching the high points like the nose.
If this was done, then the draping issue is not a problem. There might be some small distortions but not the gross anatomical distortions that having a soft cloth follow the contours of the body would generate. incidentally, the variations in the sun bleaching of the hanks of linen yarn used to weave the cloth of the Shroud have added their own visual distortion to the image, thinning the face by deepening the shadows between the cheeks and the hair by the woof yarns being more bleached and therefor lighter, reversed on the negative.
There is evidence on the Shroud that this packing around the body is what was done, showing images of branching herbs and flowers found in the Eastern Mediterranean. These images have been identified on the non-image area peripheries of the Shroud by Dr. Avanoam Danin, Professor of Botany at The Hebrew University of Jerusalem, and the World's foremost expert on plants of the Eastern Mediterranean:
From: XVI International Botanical Congress
Botanical evidence indicates "Shroud of Turin" originated in Jerusalem area before 8th centuryST. LOUIS, MO. August 2, 1999 -An analysis of pollen grains and plant images places the origin of the "Shroud of Turin," thought by many to be the burial cloth of Jesus of Nazareth, in Jerusalem before the 8th Century. The authenticity of the Shroud has been debated for centuries, with a 1988 carbon dating process placing it in the Middle Ages.
Botanist Avinoam Danin of The Hebrew University of Jerusalem determined the origin of the Shroud based on a comprehensive analysis of pollen taken from the Shroud and plant images associated with the Shroud. The review of plant and pollen evidence is being published by the Missouri Botanical Garden Press as Flora of the Shroud of Turin by Danin, Alan Whanger, Mary Whanger , and Uri Baruch. The peer-reviewed publication will be available in late summer.
Danin presented his research findings at a lecture series held in conjunction with the XVI International Botanical Congress. More than 4,000 scientists from 100 countries are meeting in St. Louis this week to discuss the latest research on plants for human survival and improved quality of life. Held only once every six years, the International Botanical Congress last met in the United States in 1969, when it was held in Seattle, Washington.
Danin's analysis suggests that flowers and other plant materials were placed on the Shroud of Turin, leaving pollen grains and imprints of plants and flowers on the linen cloth. In addition to the image of a crucified man, the cloth also contains faint images of plants. Tentatively identifying the plant images through a method of image comparison known as Polarized Image Overlay Technique (PIOT), Alan and Mary Whanger have reported that the flowers were from the Near East region and that the Shroud originated in early centuries. Analysis of the floral images by Danin and an analysis of the pollen grains by Uri Baruch identify a combination of certain species that could be found only in the months of March and April in the region of Jerusalem during that time.
The analysis positively identifies a high density of pollen of the thistle Gundelia tournefortii which has bloomed in Israel between March and May for millennia. An image of the plant can be seen near the image of the man's shoulder. It has been hypothesized by the Whangers, who have researched the Shroud for decades, that this is the plant used for the "crown of thorns" on Jesus' head.
Two pollen grains of this species were also found on the Sudarium of Oviedo, widely accepted as the burial face cloth of Jesus. The location of the Sudarium has been documented from the 1st Century and it has resided in the Cathedral of Oviedo in Spain since the 8th Century. Both cloths also carry type AB blood stains, although some argue that ancient blood types are hard to interpret. What is clear is that the blood stains on both cloths are in a similar pattern.
"There is no way that similar patterns of blood stains, probably of the identical blood type, with the same type of pollen grains, could not be synchronic - covering the same body," Danin stated. "The pollen association and the similarities in the blood stains in the two cloths provide clear evidence that the Shroud originated before the 8th Century."
Danin stated that this botanical research disputes the validity of the claim that the Shroud was from Europe during the Middle Ages, as many researchers had concluded in 1988 based on carbon-14 dating tests. The authors do not question the accuracy of the carbon-14 dating test which was done on only a single sample taken from one highly contaminated corner of the shroud, he said. However, their research looked at pollen grains and images from the entire piece of fabric and compared them with a fabric that has a documented history.
Another plant seen in a clear image on the Shroud is of the Zygophyllum dumosum species, according to the paper. This is a native plant with an unusual leaf morphology, displaying paired leaflets on the ends of leaf petiole of the current year during the beginning of winter.
Gundelia tournefortii and Zygophyllum dumosum coexist in a limited area, according to Danin, a leading authority on plants of Israel. The area is bounded by lines linking Jerusalem and Hebron in Israel and Madaba and Karak in Jordan. The area is anchored toward the Jerusalem-Hebron zone with the addition of a third species, Cistus creticus, identified as being placed on the Shroud through an analysis of pollen and floral imaging.
"This combination of flowers can be found in only one region of the world," Danin stated. "The evidence clearly points to a floral grouping from the area surrounding Jerusalem."
Danin stated that the evidence revealing these species on the Shroud suggests that they were placed with the body prior to the process that caused the formation of images on the cloth. According to Danin, his findings corroborate the following sequence of events:
- Laying the body on the linen;
- Placing flowering plants and other objects along with the body;
- Folding the cloth over the body;
- Initiation of the process that caused the formation of the images.
Images of Capparis aegyptia flowers, which display a distinctive pattern during daylight hours, have also been seen on the Shroud. The process of buds opening ceases when the flowers are picked and no water is supplied. The images of these flowers on the Shroud suggest they were picked in the Judean Desert or the Dead Sea Valley between 3 and 4 p.m. on the day they were placed on the Shroud.
The images of the flowers on the Shroud are also depicted in art of the early centuries, according to the upcoming publication. Early icons on some 7th century coins portray a number of flower images that accurately match floral images seen on the Shroud today, according to PIOT analysis by the Whangers. The researchers suggest that the faint images on the Shroud were probably clearer in earlier centuries.
Botanical investigation of the Shroud began with Max Frei's 1973 observations of pollen grains on the Shroud, which he sampled by means of sticky tape. Frei took a second set of 27 sticky tape samples from the Shroud during the scientific study in 1978. In 1979 he took 46 sticky tape samples from the Sudarium of Oviedo. In 1983 faint floral images on the Shroud linen were noted by O. Scheuermann, and subsequently in 1985 by the Whangers. Botanist Avinoam Danin began collaborating with Shroud researchers Alan and Mary Whanger in 1995. They were joined by Israeli pollen expert Uri Baruch in 1998. Frei's Shroud botanical collections were acquired in 1994 by the Council for Study of the Shroud of Turin (CSST) and became the resource for this study which analyzed 313 pollen grains.
The burial cloth known today as the Shroud of Turin is a linen rectangle measuring 4.35 meters by 1.1 meter. It has been kept in the city of Turin (Torino), Italy, since 1578. In 1694, the Shroud was placed in a special chapel within the Italian cathedral of St. John the Baptist. Except for a brief period during World War II when the cloth was moved elsewhere for safety, the Shroud remained in this cathedral until the night of April 11, 1997, when a raging fire necessitated its removal. The Shroud was not damaged, and was kept elsewhere in the city until it again was placed in the cathedral for public display from April 18 through June 14, 1998.
While there have long been historical, literary, and artistic claims that the Shroud represents the authentic burial cloth of Jesus, there has been little scientific evidence to support this. In 1988, carbon-14 dating of a single sample from a corner of the Shroud was identified to be from 1260 to 1390 A.D., leading to the widespread conclusion that the entire Shroud was from the Medieval period.—Scienceblog.com
Dr. Garza-Valdes, M.D., is a San Antonio, Texas, pediatrician who originated the hypothesis of the bioplastic coating distorting the 1988 C14 test results. Unfortunately, his hypothesis did not survive peer-review with most reviews citing the criticisms outlined above.
Garza-Valdes 1998 hypothesis was falsified by later research by numerous researchers. What Dr. Garza-Valdes identified as his bioplastic materials on some of the Raes' sample threads taken from the area directly to the left of and adjacent to the 1988 C14 sample site was in reality, when chemically tested, found to be the Alazarin dyes and alum mordant used to stain the COTTON (R.N. Rogers, et al, 2003, confirmed by J.L. Brown, et al. (2004) and R. Villarreal (2008)) of the replacement threads rewoven into the Shroud in the 1500s. It has been determined that ALL of the Raes' sample threads taken in 1973, were taken from the repair area and are not Linen at all, but cotton. Actual threads from the Shroud itself are remarkably clean and do not show any coating at all until the magnification level exceeds 4000X, when it become possible to see the 100 nanometer thick coating of starch fractions that actually contain the brown color of the image.
While some of Garza-Valdes' concerns are vaild such as the question about variations in atmospheric carbon14 at differing times in the past, this is an issue that is understood and adjusted for by calibrating C14 dating to dendrochronology (tree Ring dating) for specific areas of the world, his primary hypothesis is not.
Fine.
Disprove it.
I have no desire to disprove the authenticity of the Shroud.
Instead, like other artifacts, it is the responsibility of its proponents to prove that it is authentic.
So, would this scenario be compatible with this:
- The body is placed in a tomb or a sarcophagus, or some enclosure with walls, such as the top edge of the walls forms a flat rectangle, with or without the top.
- On part of the shroud is lined along the flat bottom of the enclosure.
- Herbs and oils fill the remaining space of the enclosure.
- The other half of the shroud is draped on top of the body and the herbs, which together support it in a roughly flat position.
- Some wounds touch the shroud leaving deposits of blood
- The head is wrapped in the sudarion, which also receives deposits of blood, but no image.
- A mysterious process acts like photography and transfers the image onto the roughly flat surfaces under and over the body. The energy released in the process caramelizes the dyes in the linen in inverse proportion to the distance from the body to the shroud.
- The shroud surfaces are flat, the bottom due to the flatness of the bottom of the tomb, and the top due to the shape of the top edges of the walls and the support of the herb and oil mass, as well as the body. Because both surfaces are nearly flat, realistic aspect ratios of the image are achieved.
Does that make sense?
If so, this opens the next question. How did the image of the wounds transfer? How much are blood stains a part of the image? We can assume that the top (forward) parts of the body, such as the forehead, the nose and the hands perhaps touched the shroud and deposited blood by contact. But we see wounds around the body as well, even though if the distance was the only factor modulating the caramelization of the dye, the wounds would not be visible.
Why?
Go right ahead.
I'll wait here.
If the proponents prove that the Shroud is authentic, then there will be no question that it was indeed Christ’s burial cloth.
It's funny, but years ago while I was still a protestant I frequently found myself in debates defending Catholic teaching against so-called "Catholics". The ones who claimed to be "devout" or asserted authority from having attended Catholic schools were invariably the worst. Since my conversion I have found that most of these people aren't even Christian let alone Catholic in their beliefs.
Please keep fighting the good fight.
See 93.
I already answered that question.
Close. 1st Century tombs in Jerusalem of fairly wealthy people—which is what someone like Joseph of Arimathea would have purchased or had built—have a central-chamber with a bone-pit in the center called an ossuary. Around the walls are shelf like niches with carved flat surfaces to place the body on. These niches could be two and three high, one above another. Some had bier like raised stone platforms hewn from the floor for the placement of the bodies. The niches are open on one side, with a ceiling, two side walls and a back wall. They may also be an arched niche over the shelf. They are not a excavated hole in the floor with side walls or a carved sarcophagus.The traditional practice was to place the body in one of the niches or on the bier, secure the body from flopping by tying the extremities in position, close and secure the mouth (with a binding) and eyes (by placing a potsherd or coin on the lids), then pack aromatic substances around the body and cover it. If there was time before sundown on the day of death, the body would be ritually washed and anointed with oils. If there was not enough time, those tasks would be done on the first work day following the day of death, which is what the women were doing on the morning following the Sabbath.
Eventually, after the body had decomposed to bones, the family would come in, collect the bones from the niche or bier and place them in the central ossuary to be united with their ancestors. The niche or bier would then be available for re-use.
However, a practice that lasted from about 20BC to 70AD—probably picked up from Roman burial practices—resulted in some less than traditional wealthy families not putting the bones of the departed in the central ossuary. Instead, they made small, single person, stone, box ossuaries and put the bones in the box instead of in the pit. Only the wealthy could afford this. It is my understanding this heretical practice was ended with the destruction of Jerusalem around 70 AD.
It is important to note that Jesus was laid in a NEW tomb... one that had never been used... so the central ossuary should have been empty.
- On part of the shroud is lined along the flat bottom of the enclosure.
Probably a good assumption.
- Herbs and oils fill the remaining space of the enclosure.
Herbs and aromatic spices (probably flowers, too) would be packed around the body on all sides. Whether it would fill the remaining space is questionable... there is probably a working space above the body. The purpose of the aromatics is to mask the odors of decompositions as much as possible. The oils would be used to clean the body and anoint it.
- The other half of the shroud is draped on top of the body and the herbs, which together support it in a roughly flat position.
- Some wounds touch the shroud leaving deposits of blood
Yes. Most of the body is high enough that the side wound, the wrist wounds, forehead blood flow, etc. do make contact. This is an area that is problematic because the body is covered with approximately 130 scourge wounds that do show on both front and back. The back ones are easy to explain as the back is resting on the Shroud... but the front wounds, although less apparent, still have transferred blood to the cloth.
- The head is wrapped in the sudarion, which also receives deposits of blood, but no image.
I would not say that the sudarium "wrapped" the head as in covered the face. It was instead probably bound around the face, leaving the face bare. The sudarium was probably used to cover the head of the dead body while still on the cross... and still used as the body was taken down, and while the body was carried to the tomb.There are blood stains on the Sudarium that match the locations of blood flows on the Shroud image's head. In fact there are more than 70 points of congruence. There is a hand-print in blood on the Sudarium that is placed where someone would place their hand if they were holding the head while carrying the body in a supine position.
After the body was carried into the tomb, the sudarium was probably rolled up like a boy-scout kerchief diagonally to get the longest possible length and then pressed into duty to be used as a binding around the head to keep the mouth shut. This binding would pass under the chin, behind the ears, and then be tied at the crown of the head to keep the jaw closed. Whether it received any more blood stains when used as this binding is unknown. The Sudarium shows matching repeated fluid stains that show that it was rolled up like the kerchief.
- A mysterious process acts like photography and transfers the image onto the roughly flat surfaces under and over the body. The energy released in the process caramelizes the dyes in the linen in inverse proportion to the distance from the body to the shroud.
I don't think i would use the term "like photography" because it isn't... but it is definitely mysterious. It's something varies in intensity with distance from the body only in the vertical vector—within a few degrees—to cause the starch fractions coating the fibrils to convert to Caramel. Very strange. Interestingly, the caramel does NOT exist underneath the blood stains... which indicates the blood was placed first, image after.- The shroud surfaces are flat, the bottom due to the flatness of the bottom of the tomb, and the top due to the shape of the top edges of the walls and the support of the herb and oil mass, as well as the body. Because both surfaces are nearly flat, realistic aspect ratios of the image are achieved.
Not quite... the oil would not be part of the mass. And the herbs, flowers, and spices would be enough to partially support the cloth over the body. Some of the excess herbs and spices might have been placed on top further securing the cloth. Keeping them relatively flat is the result, maintaining a close to normal aspect ratio.
If so, this opens the next question. How did the image of the wounds transfer? How much are blood stains a part of the image? We can assume that the top (forward) parts of the body, such as the forehead, the nose and the hands perhaps touched the shroud and deposited blood by contact. But we see wounds around the body as well, even though if the distance was the only factor modulating the caramelization of the dye, the wounds would not be visible.
Excellent question. As I mentioned above, the image does not exist UNDER the blood stains. This would create a problem of registration. If the blood was placed first, how was the image then exactly superimposed over the blood stains so they are in the correct location on the body image. This gets us back to the possibility that the body translated THROUGH the cloth leaving the blood stains and then the caramel change occurring as the body passes through with a longer passage through the body resulting in a stronger image... but then the blood on the back should also be found on the front image... mysterious.
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