Posted on 01/31/2009 11:31:27 AM PST by marktwain
(This is a followup to the arrest of Brad Krause for carrying a holstered pistol in his own yard. The police could not come up with anything else, so they claimed disorderly conduct. There was a hearing, and another hearing is scheduled for 17 February, 2009. I had not seen this before, it is a description of what happened at the hearing on 16 December)
Has anyone talked to the defendant?
We all stood around and chatted for a while after the hearing.
It was great to meet more of you. Auric, John, and Gene and Pete great to see you guys again.
Brad and Attorney Steve, great job.
And the guy (Mr. Dykstra) whom called the police in the first place rambled on several times about how he was concerned that Krause's holstered handgun "might go off"!
Wasn't that a joke.
I SO badly wanted to ask Donald Dykstra "so when the officers were in the neighborhood, were you concerned about their guns "going off" too? "
I mean the situation got MORE dangerous when the police arrived. Brad had the gun on his hip in a holster and NEVER removed it from that holster.
If a gun "in its holster" is a danger, then didn't MORE guns in holsters showing up (on the hip of the police) increase the danger) and didn't the police officers approaching Brad (who was planting a tree) WITH GUNS DRAWN place the neighbors in EXPONENTIALLY more danger than they were ever placed in by Brad having a gun holstered on his hip.
I hope the west allis police department would re-examine their procedures in light of this situation.
Anyway... As those in court saw, based on the facts of the case there wasn't anything disorderly. On any level.
It was clear the judge isn't a big gun guru or in favor of people open carrying but I feel very strongly that he couldn't find anything in the cities case to support the charge. It seems to me that aside from needing to read the brief the city threw at him moments before the trial, he would have ruled in favor of Brad and dismissed the charges on grounds that the city did not meet the "muster" of "disorderly". Gosh, in the 4 months since Brad was arrested you'd think the west allis city attorney could have provided a brief sooner than a few minutes before the hearing.
I was very happy to hear the judge draw the parallel between the fact that people might be offended by something (the nazi flag being flown on someones house) or offended by the abortion protestors with their big posters of dead babies on hwy 100, but being offended (and even outraged) doesn't trump people's constitutional rights. I was also happy to hear him say that he has a big ego and doesn't like to be wrong and as such he doesn't want his decision turned over on appeal by the circuit of the state, so he's going to issue a ruling that he believes will be embraced by both. Based on the state laws, comments from previous attorney generals, comments from our GOVERNOR. I believe that means he's going to find in Brad's favor.
Regardless, as he mentioned, no matter who wins, this will be appealled to circuit court. I believe this case will go to the state supreme court and I look forward to the precedence it will set.
It looks to be very real. Are there any Freepers close by who can attend the hearing on 17 Feb and post a report? I am trying to find more details, I believe it is scheduled for 8AM on the 17th at the West Allis Court House, but I sure would like confirmation of it!
West Allis, WI 53227
The same day analog TV goes dead.
Coincidence? I think not.
I guarantee you it is real. It is a real case.
I will be there on Feb 17.
Excellent.
Open carry is supposed to be legal in WI. If the guy was on his own property, minding his own business, there should be no case.
Unfortunately, it is pretty clear that police all across the state routinely charge those exercising their rights with disorderly conduct.
Yes. That’s exactly correct. They make something that is legal into something de facto illegal by using unrelated charges to prevent you from doing the legal activity.
We have open carry and that’s the way we’re supposed to carry.
When we do that we get arrested for disturbing the peace, etc. Never because it’s illegal to carry openly.
In order to prevent freaking people out, it has been argued then we should have concealed carry and avoid the disturbing the peace charges. However courts have ruled we can’t carry concealed because we already have open carry and there is no reason to carry concealed.
Bottom line is everyone liberal democrat in power in WI talks a good game and ‘supports’ open carry, but in practice does not want one single law abiding citizen to actually be able to. They love that when people actually do exercise the right they get arrested. Many of the cops here are so fat and lazy and don’t trust citizens, they fear opnely armed law abiding citizens more than the crooks who carry concealed and are the only ones who’d shoot at them.
I’ll second that. It certainly is a real case. This poor man is proof that the WI “open carry” is pure bunk, since if we do open carry, we are in danger of getting arrested for disorderly conduct.
Do you have any more information about the case? Exact address, time, what needs to be done to attend the hearing? Anything like that could be posted here and might be helpful.
Do you have any more information about the case? Exact address, time, what needs to be done to attend the hearing? Anything like that could be posted here and might be helpful.
(I meant for Secret Agent Man to be pinged as well :-)
“Unfortunately, it is pretty clear that police all across the state routinely charge those exercising their rights with disorderly conduct.”
I don’t think it is all across the state. It is mostly prevalent in the southeastern urban center and the People’s Republic of Madison. I have carried openly in northern Wisconsin without a problem, and I recall another post where several county prosecutors were said to have stated that it was not there policy to charge people who openly carried with disorderly conduct.
Oops! there policy should be their policy!
I heard this story covered on local talk radio when it happened, and it was on local TV news. This guy just had uppity neighbors who hate guns. He was doing yard work for goodness sakes. I am sure an internet search would reveal all facts needed about the hearing.
This should be a big case. I am trying to get out the information. Any help would be appreciated.
“I believe this case will go to the state supreme court and I look forward to the precedence it will set.”
When you can be forced to ajudicate something like this your freedom is already gone.
Beyond that, even if the decision goes our way the cops and politicians will do as they damned well please. For instance try to get a pistol permit in NY. The scotus ruled on the 2nd and.....still tough shit in NY if you want a gun.
8am Feb 17, west allis courthouse.
There is an excellent conservative pro-gun rights NRA member radio host named Vicki McKenna. She broadcasts from Madison on 1310 WIBA and from Milwaukee on a much larger station 1130 WISN. She has discussed this case and I am sure she knows the details. One of her emails is www.VickiMcKenna@newstalk1130.com also the website where she is featured for her show out of Milwaukee is www.newstalk1130.com There is a profile of her there. Another conservative host at that same page is Mark Belling. He subs for Rush. I am sure he is aware of this case too. He is also a conservative. You will have an easier time reaching Vicki. She is big time into gun rights. An email to her might be a good way to get the low down on details about the case. At her website www.newstalk1130.com there is probably a phone number to reach her show. I am sure she or her producer can help you with info. Good luck to you!
Really? In the last big 2nd case in WI the WI supremes decided to go against logic and precedence due to...lets see, it was the feds who found "emanations and penumbras"...I believe our own mis-employed interior decorators that found "shades and tones" as reason to rule against fact, logic, and intent.
Here is a snip from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinal:
"Koschnick, 48, a Jefferson County judge since 1999, describes himself a judicial conservative who will interpret existing laws and not issue rulings that have the effect of making new laws.
Similar self-characterizations helped former circuit judges Annette Ziegler and Michael Gableman win seats on the Supreme Court in 2007 and 2008, respectively.
Abrahamson is viewed by many as a more formidable opponent than former Justice Louis Butler, defeated by Gableman in Butler's first election after being appointed to the Supreme Court by Gov. Jim Doyle, and Madison lawyer Linda Clifford, beaten by Ziegler for an open seat."
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