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Bush's Legacy: Conservatives Were Betrayed
newsmax.com ^ | January 19, 2009 | Newsmax Editorial

Posted on 01/20/2009 2:50:44 AM PST by VU4G10

Newsmax.com Editorial

"This administration has had a good, solid record, and I'm very proud of it. I tell people I leave town with a great sense of accomplishment and my head held high.”

—George W. Bush, Jan. 13, 2009

As the 43rd president waves goodbye to Washington, relatively few Americans share his proud assessment of his own presidency.

George W. Bush leaves the White House with one of the lowest approval ratings in history. According to Gallup, only Richard Nixon and Harry Truman, who suffered the double whammy of a bad economy and the unpopular Korean War, had lower approval ratings when they left the White House.

Today, Bush’s legacy to his successor is two unresolved wars, a global image that is deeply tarnished, and the greatest economic crisis in modern times.

Conservatives who backed Bush in two successive elections have little to show for their efforts. Bush, in fact, has decimated the Republican brand.

Bush oversaw the greatest increase in discretionary social spending in history as the federal government usurped new powers in its war on terror. He placed the United States on a global interventionist path for the elusive goal of “democracy.” Ronald Reagan would not be able to recognize the party he knew, which espoused limited government, protection of personal liberty, and the idea that the U.S. should lead globally by example rather than by force.

(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bush; bush43; bushlegacy; rino
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To: Matchett-PI
"Doing whatever is necessary to defend your country..."

Not really. I don't consider open borders "doing whatever..."

Can you come up with anything else besides the WOT that he did to further conservatism or even fiscal responsibility? Or, anything?

41 posted on 01/20/2009 4:19:52 AM PST by raybbr (It's going to get a lot worse now that the anchor babies are voting!)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
People have no cause nor excuse for feeling “betrayed” by this: Truth in Advertizing — they got from Bush what he said he’d deliver. Compassionate Conservatism. More to the center than to the far right.

I am really curious. Why do you continue to equivocate for Bush being from NZ? What's your interest in propping up a man who showed no inclination whatsoever in maintaining very few social or any fiscal conservative policies?

42 posted on 01/20/2009 4:25:25 AM PST by raybbr (It's going to get a lot worse now that the anchor babies are voting!)
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To: raybbr

Bill Clinton pledged a billion or so dollars to Africa for AIDS, then W and Colin Powell pledged 15 billion, then W and Laura Bush went back over and raised it to 50 billion. I still cannot find that clause in our constitution where the PRez gets to give our taxpayer dollars away to another continent. And to top it off, there is no gratitude to the US or W for doing it. How dumb can one be?


43 posted on 01/20/2009 4:27:07 AM PST by doosee
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To: VU4G10
George W. Bush leaves the White House with one of the lowest approval ratings in history. According to Gallup, only Richard Nixon and Harry Truman, who suffered the double whammy of a bad economy and the unpopular Korean War, had lower approval ratings when they left the White House.

But Harry Truman is considered one of our best president.

44 posted on 01/20/2009 4:30:45 AM PST by chainsaw
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To: caver
"The Bush bashing on FR is disgusting."

The Vigilante bashing by W was disgusting. The spending to out 'rat the 'rats was disgusting.

The above not withstanding, things would have been worse with Gore or JF'nK.

45 posted on 01/20/2009 4:34:33 AM PST by Paladin2 (No, pundits strongly believe that the proper solution is more dilution.)
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To: raybbr
"Can you come up with anything else besides the WOT that he did to further conservatism "

Roberts and Alito, though he had to get a partial butt kicking to even pull that off.

46 posted on 01/20/2009 4:39:20 AM PST by Paladin2 (No, pundits strongly believe that the proper solution is more dilution.)
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To: SkyPilot
As does this. At least he got one thing right.
47 posted on 01/20/2009 4:39:37 AM PST by Long Island Pete (For the first time in my life, I am afraid for my country.)
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To: raybbr

> I am really curious. Why do you continue to equivocate for Bush being from NZ?

OK, fair enough — you’ve asked a very personal question but it is a fair one. Here goes:

Bush was a great President, and during his Presidency the rift between our two Nations began to mend. Despite Helen Clark, not because of her.

Under a far-right President that would not have been possible. And, incidentally, the excellent relationship the US enjoys with Australia would probably not have been possible under a far-right President, either.

Simple enough, I guess.

As to my own politics and why I support Bush, they don’t fall tidily into “left” or “right” / “liberal” or “conservative” as you would understand the terms — as would be in common with most people in the Commonwealth. They tend to be in your “right-hand” of the spectrum, with a few from the “left” mixed in.

(for example, I see nothing wrong at all with socialized medicine if it is done properly — but I am entirely against the welfare state)

> What’s your interest in propping up a man who showed no inclination whatsoever in maintaining very few social or any fiscal conservative policies?

He was a war-time President whose focus (rightly) was external, not internal. I would be very harsh and critical if it were any other way. His only full-time job so far as I am concerned was to prosecute the WOT: anything he did above and beyond that was to be done in his spare time, after hours.

For example, I am likely to be very harsh and critical of Obama if he dares to focus on social issues rather than prosecuting the WOT. During wartime, that is a leader’s only legitimate business: all else must fall in behind that. That is what Churchill did, and his politics would be very similar to mine.

Dunno if that helps...


48 posted on 01/20/2009 4:43:47 AM PST by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: Piranha

I gotta wonder if this Autumn’s moves by Bush wasn’t a “poison-the-well” strategy. If McCain won, the RINOs would be in power and would take credit for Bush’s successes. Thereafter RINOs would run the GOP for quite a while. If Obama won, the Liberals would be in power and wuold take credit for Bush’s successes.

Therefore the most logical long-term strategy might be to “poison-the-well” and deprive whoever wins of any chance of a successful term in office.

As it stands now, Obama has bugger-all to work with, and there will not be an appetite for higher taxes OR service cuts, yet he has promised the moon and has no real way of delivering it...

...viewed that way, “poison-the-well” is a viable strategy.


49 posted on 01/20/2009 4:50:56 AM PST by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: VU4G10
"George W. Bush leaves the White House with one of the lowest approval ratings in history."

They always start off with this. Admiring their own work, I expect.

President Bush is not my favorite because he didn't advance our conservative agenda or fight for the truth when he was lied about, bashed, and shown in the worst possible light for eight stinkin' years, but he ably protected this country from post-9/11 terrorist attacks during his tenure. That ain't chopped liver. And he's a good man, a nice guy, and he far outclasses any radical journalist or dem.

50 posted on 01/20/2009 4:52:58 AM PST by TheOldLady
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To: raybbr

People have such short memories! Here is something from a couple of years ago...you asked for it.

Rush Limbaugh Live Thread
Wednesday, May 31, 2006 2:30:15 PM · 252 of 343
A.Hun to DoctorMichael; rwa265; Pukin Dog

Maybe you and Rush should read this (it was posted yesterday). George Bush is maybe the most conservative President we have had in recent memory.

“Can you name one single, solitary piece of their agenda the the Republican party has made even a half-hearted effort to pass? These folks have gotten ZIP in return for their time, effort, money , and votes.”

Here is a list of Bush/Republican accomplishments from Pukin Dog’s about page. You may not agree with everything on it, but there are more than one “piece of their agenda the Republican party has made even a half-hearted effort to pass.” Please read the list and consider what Gore/Kerry/Hitlery would do if they were in office.

(I hope you don’t mind I did this, Pukin Dog.)

Abortion & Traditional Values

1. Banned Partial Birth Abortion — by far the most significant roll-back of abortion on demand since Roe v. Wade.
2. Reversed Clinton’s move to strike Reagan’s anti-abortion Mexico Policy.
3. By Executive Order (EO), reversed Clinton’s policy of not requiring parental consent for abortions under the Medical Privacy Act.
4. By EO, prohibited federal funds for international family planning groups that provide abortions and related services.
5. Upheld the ban on abortions at military hospitals.
6. Made $33 million available for abstinence education programs in 2004.
7. Supports the Defense of Marriage Act — and a Constitutional amendment saying marriage is between one man and one woman.
8. Requires states to conduct criminal background checks on prospective foster and adoptive parents.
9. Requires districts to let students transfer out of dangerous schools.
10. Requires schools to have a zero-tolerance policy for classroom disruption (reintroducing discipline into classrooms).
11. Signed the Teacher Protection Act, which protects teachers from lawsuits related to student discipline.
12. Expanded the role of faith-based and community organizations in after-school programs.

Budget, Taxes & Economy

1. Signed two income tax cuts, one of which was the largest dollar-value tax cut in world history.
2. Supports permanent elimination of the death tax.
3. Turned around an inherited economy that was in recession, and deeply shocked as a result of the 9/11 attacks.
4. Is seeking legislation to amend the Constitution to give the president line-item veto authority.
5. In process of permanently eliminating IRS marriage penalty.
6. Increased small business incentives to expand and to hire new people.
7. Initiated discussion on privatizing Social Security and individual investment accounts.
8. Killed Clinton’s “ergonomic” rules that OSHA was about to implement; rules would have shut down every home business in America.
9. Passed tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals.
10. Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains.
11. Signed trade promotion authority.
12. Reduced and is working to ultimately eliminate the estate tax for family farms and ranches.
13. Fight Europe’s ban on importing biotech crops from the United States.
14. Exempt food from unilateral trade sanctions and embargoes.
15. Provided $20 million to states to help people with disabilities work from home.
16. Created a fund to encourage technologies that help the disabled.
17. Increased the annual contribution limit on Education IRA’s from $500 to $2,000 per child.
18. Make permanent the $5,000 adoption tax credit and provide $1 billion over five years to increase the credit to $10,000.
19. Grant a complete tax exemption for prepaid or college tuition savings plans.
20. Reduced H1B visas from a high of 195,000 per year to 66,000 per year.

Character & Conduct as President

1. Changed the tone in the White House, restoring HONOR and DIGNITY to the presidency.
2. Has reintroduced the mention of God and faith into public discourse.
3. Handled himself with enormous courage, dignity, grace, determination, and leadership in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 hijackings and anthrax attacks. He almost single-handedly held this country together during those searing days:

* Just three days after the attacks, in his address at the National Cathedral, the President reassured the nation when he said: “War has been waged against us by stealth and deceit and murder. This nation is peaceful, but fierce when stirred to anger. This conflict was begun on the timing and terms of others. It will end in a way, and at an hour, of our choosing.”

* On Friday, September 14, 2001, President Bush visited Ground Zero. Standing on a crushed and burned fire engine atop the smoldering pile at Ground Zero, he put his arm around a retired firefighter who had volunteered to help, and began speaking to the crowd. Rescue workers shouted that they could not hear him. Someone handed him a small American flag and bullhorn. The President spontaneously shouted: “I can hear you. The rest of the world hears you. And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon.” The crowd roared with cheers and chants of “USA! USA! USA!” Then he raised that American flag and rallied a nation:

Education & Employment Training

1. Signed the No Child Left Behind Act, delivering the most dramatic education reforms in a generation (challenging the soft bigotry of low expectations). The very liberal California Teachers union is currently running radio ads against the accountability provisions of this Act.
2. Announced “Jobs for the 21st Century,” a comprehensive plan to better prepare workers for jobs in the new millennium by strengthening post-secondary education and job training, and by improving high school education.
3. Is working to provide vouchers to low-income students in persistently failing schools to help with costs of attending private schools. (Blocked in the Senate.)
4. Requires annual reading and math tests in grades three through eight.
5. Requires states to participate in the National Assessment of Education Progress, or an equivalent program, to establish a national benchmark for academic performance.
6. Requires school-by-school accountability report cards.
7. Established a $2.4 billion fund to help states implement teacher accountability systems.
8. Increased funding for the Troops-to-Teachers program, which recruits former military personnel to to become teachers.

Environment & Energy

1. Killed the Kyoto Global Warming Treaty.
2. Submitted a comprehensive Energy Plan (awaits Congressional action). The plan works to develop cleaner technology, produce more natural gas here at home, make America less dependent on foreign sources of energy, improve national grid, etc.
3. Established a $10 million grant program to promote private conservation initiatives.
4. Significantly eased field-testing controls of genetically engineered crops.
5. Changed parts of the Forestry Management Act to allow necessary cleanup of the national forests in order to reduce fire danger.
6. Part of national forests cleanup: Restricted judicial challenges (based on the Endangered Species Act and other challenges), and removed the need for an Environmental Impact Statement before removing fuels/logging to reduce fire danger.
7. Killed Clinton’s CO2 rules that were choking off all of the electricity surplus to California.
8. Provided matching grants for state programs that help private landowners protect rare species.

Defense & Foreign Policy

1. Successfully executed two wars in the aftermath of 9/11/01: Afghanistan and Iraq. 50 million people who had lived under tyrannical regimes now live in freedom.
2. Saddam Hussein is now in prison. His two murderous sons are dead. All but a handful of the regime’s senior members were killed or captured.
3. Leader by leader and member by member, al Qaida is being hunted down in dozens of countries around the world. Of the senior al Qaida leaders, operational managers, and key facilitators the U.S. Government has been tracking, nearly two-thirds have been taken into custody or killed. The detentions or deaths of senior al Qaida leaders, including Khalid Shaykh Muhammad, the mastermind of 9/11, and Muhammad Atef, Osama bin Laden’s second-in-command until his death in late 2001, have been important in the War on Terror.
4. Disarmed Libya of its chemical, nuclear and biological WMD’s without bribes or bloodshed.
5. Continues to execute the War On Terror, getting worldwide cooperation to track funds/terrorists. Has cut off much of the terrorists’ funding, and captured or killed many key leaders of the al Qaeda network.
6. Initiated a comprehensive review of our military, which was completed just prior to 9/11/01, and which accurately reported that ASYMMETRICAL WARFARE capabilities were critical in the 21st Century.
7. Killed the old US/Soviet Union ABM Treaty that was preventing the U.S. from deploying our ABM defenses.
8. Has been one of the strongest, if not THE strongest friend Israel has ever hand in the U.S. presidency.
9. Part of the coalition for an Israeli/Palestinian “Roadmap to Peace,” along with Great Britain, Russia and the EU.
10. Pushed through THREE raises for our military. Increased military pay by more than $1 billion a year.
11. Signed the LARGEST nuclear arms reduction in world history with Russia.
12. Started withdrawing our troops from Bosnia, and has announced withdrawal of our troops from Germany and the Korean DMZ.
13. Prohibited putting U.S. troops under U.N. command.
14. Paid back UN dues only in return for reforms and reduction of U.S. share of the costs.
15. Earmarked at least 20 percent of the Defense procurement budget for next-generation weaponry.
16. Increased defense research and development spending by at least $20 billion from fiscal 2002 to 2006.
17. Ordered a comprehensive review of military weapons and strategy.
18. Ordered a review of overseas deployments.
19. Ordered renovation of military housing. The military has already upgraded about 10 percent of its inventory and expects to modernize 76,000 additional homes this year.
20. Is working to tighten restrictions on military-technology exports.
21. Brought back our EP-3 intel plane and crew from China without any bribes or bloodshed.

Globalization & Internationalism

1. Challenged the United Nations to live up to their responsibilities and not become another League of Nations (in other words, showed the UN to be completely irrelevant).
2. Killed U.S. involvement in the International Criminal Court.
3. Told the United Nations we weren’t interested in their plans for gun control (i.e., the International Ban on Small Arms Trafficking Treaty).*
4. The only President since the founding of the UN to essentially tell that organization it is irrelevant. He said: “The conduct of the Iraqi regime is a threat to the authority of the United Nations, and a threat to peace. Iraq has answered a decade of UN demands with a decade of defiance. All the world now faces a test, and the United Nations a difficult and defining moment. Are Security Council resolutions to be honored and enforced, or cast aside without consequence? Will the United Nations serve the purpose of its founding, or will it be irrelevant?” We all know the outcome and the answer.
5. Told the Congress and the world, “America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our country.”

Government Reform

1. Improved government efficiency by putting hundreds of thousands of jobs put up for bid. This weakens public-sector unions and cuts undeserved pay raises.
2. Initiated review of all federal agencies with the goal of eliminating federal jobs (completed September 2003) in an effort to reduce the size of the federal government while increasing private sector jobs.
3. Led the most extensive reorganization the Federal bureaucracy in over 50 years: After 9/11, condensed 20+ overlapping agencies and their intelligence sectors into one agency, the Department of Homeland Security.*
4. Ordered each agency to draft a five-year plan to restructure itself, with fewer managers.
5. Converted federal service contracts to performance-based contracts wherever possible so that the contractor has measurable performance goals.

Health

1. Strengthen the National Health Service Corps to put more physicians in the neediest areas, and make its scholarship funds tax-free.
2. Double the research budget of the National Institutes of Health.
3. Signed Medicare Reform, which includes:

* A 10-year privatization option.
* Prescription drug benefits: Prior to this reform, Medicare paid for extended hospital stays for ulcer surgery, for example, at a cost of about $28,000 per patient. Yet Medicare would not pay for the drugs that eliminate the cause of most ulcers, drugs that cost about $500 a year. Now, drug coverage under Medicare will allow seniors to replace more expensive surgeries and hospitalizations with less expensive prescription medicine.
* More health care choices: As President Bush stated, “…when seniors have the ability to make choices, health care plans within Medicare will have to compete for their business by offering higher quality service [at lower cost]. For the seniors of America, more choices and more control will mean better health care. These are the kinds of health care options we give to the members of Congress and federal employees. What’s good for members of Congress is also good for seniors.
* New Health Savings Accounts: Effective January 1, 2004, Americans can set aside up to $4,500 every year, tax free, to save for medical expenses. Depending on your tax bracket, that means you’ll save between 10 to 35 percent on any costs covered by money in your account. Every year, the money not spent would stay in the account and gain interest tax-free, just like an IRA. These accounts will be good for small business owners, and employees. More businesses can focus on covering workers for major medical problems, such as hospitalization for an injury or illness. At the same time, employees and their families will use these accounts to cover doctors visits, or lab tests, or other smaller costs. Some employers will contribute to employee health accounts. This will help more American families get the health care they need at the price they can afford.

Homeland Security, Border Enforcement & Immigration

1. *See Government Reform above. Under President Bush’s leadership, America has made an unprecedented commitment to homeland security.
2. Has CONSTRUCTION in process on the first 10 ABM silos in Alaska so that America will have a defense against North Korean nukes. Has ordered national and theater ballistic missile defenses to be deployed by 2004.
3. Announced a 9.7% increase in government-wide homeland security funding in his FY 2005 budget, nearly tripling the FY 2001 levels (excluding the Department of Defense and Project BioShield).
4. Before DHS was created, there were inspectors from three different agencies of the Federal Government and Border Patrol officers protecting our borders. Through DHS, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) now consolidates all border activities into a single agency to create “one face at the border.” This not only better secures the borders of the United States, but it also eliminates many of the inefficiencies that occurred under the old system. With over 18,000 CBP inspectors and 11,000 Border Patrol agents, CBP has 29,000 uniformed officers on our borders.
5. The Border Patrol is continuing installation of monitoring devices along the borders to detect illegal activity.
6. Launched Operation Tarmac to investigate businesses and workers in the secure areas of domestic airports and ensure immigration law compliance. Since 9/11, DHS has audited 3,640 businesses, examined 259,037 employee records, arrested 1,030 unauthorized workers, and participated in the criminal indictment of 774 individuals.
7. Since September 11, 2001, the Coast Guard has conducted more than 124,000 port security patrols, 13,000 air patrols, boarded more than 92,000 vessels, interdicted over 14,000 individuals attempting to enter the United States illegally, and created and maintained more than 90 Maritime Security Zones.
8. Announced the Student and Exchange Visitor Information System (SEVIS), an internet-based system that is improving America’s ability to track and monitor foreign students and exchange visitors. Over 870,000 students are registered in SEVIS. Of 285 completed field investigations, 71 aliens were arrested.
9. This week, the US-VISIT program began to digitally collect biometric identifiers to record the entry and exit of aliens who travel into the U.S on a visa. Together with the standard information, this new program will confirm compliance with visa and immigration policies.
10. Eliminated INS bureaucratic redundancies and lack of accountability.
11. Split the Immigration and Naturalization Service into two agencies: one to protect the border and interior, the other to deal with naturalization.
12. Signed the workplace verification bill to prevent hiring of illegal aliens.
13. Established a six-month deadline for processing immigration applications.
14. Information regarding nearly 100% of all containerized cargo is carefully screened by DHS before it arrives in the United States. Higher risk shipments are physically inspected for terrorist weapons and contraband prior to being released from the port of entry. Advanced technologies are being deployed to identify warning signs of chemical, biological, or radiological attacks. Since September 11, 2001, hundreds of thousands of first responders across America have been trained to recognize and respond to the effects of a WMD attack.

Judiciary & Tort Reform

1. Is urging federal liability reform to eliminate frivolous lawsuits.
2. Killed the liberal ABA’s unconstitutional role in vetting federal judges. The Senate is supposed to advise and consent, not the ABA.
3. Is nominating strong, conservative judges to the judiciary.
4. Supports class action reform bill which limits lawyer fees so that more settlement money goes to victims.

Politics

1. His leadership resulted in Republican gains in the House and Senate, solidifying Republican control of both houses of Congress and the presidency.
2. Signed an EO enforcing the Supreme Court’s Beck decision regarding union dues being used for political campaigns against individual’s wishes.

Second Amendment

1. Ordered Attorney General Ashcroft to formally notify the Supreme Court that the OFFICIAL U.S. government position on the 2nd Amendment is that it supports INDIVIDUAL rights to own firearms, and is NOT a Leftist-imagined “collective” right.
2. Signed TWO bills into law that arm our pilots with handguns in the cockpit.
3. Currently pushing for full immunity from lawsuits for our national gun manufacturers.
4. *See Globalization & Internationalism.

Traditional Values, Compassion & Volunteerism

1. Endorses and promotes “The Responsibility Era.” President Bush often speaks of the necessity of personal responsibility and civic volunteerism. He said, “In a compassionate society, people respect one another and take responsibility for the decisions they make in life. My hope is to change the culture from one that has said, if it feels good, do it; if you’ve got a problem, blame somebody else — to one in which every single American understands that he or she is responsible for the decisions that you make; you’re responsible for loving your children with all your heart and all your soul; you’re responsible for being involved with the quality of the education of your children; you’re responsible for making sure the community in which you live is safe; you’re responsible for loving your neighbor, just like you would like to be loved yourself.”
2. Started the USA Freedom Corps, the most comprehensive clearinghouse of volunteer opportunities ever offered. For the first time in history, Americans can enter geographic information about where they want to get involved, such as state or zip code, as well as areas of interest ranging from education to the environment, and they can access volunteer opportunities offered by more than 50,000 organizations across the country and around the world.
3. Established the The White House Office and the Centers for the Faith-Based and Community Initiative — located in seven Federal agencies. The faith-based initiative supports the essential work of these important organizations. The goal is to make sure that grassroots leaders can compete on an equal footing for federal dollars, receive greater private support, and face fewer bureaucratic barriers. Work focuses on at-risk youth, ex-offenders, the homeless and hungry, substance abusers, those with HIV/AIDS, and welfare-to-work families.
4. The White House released a guidebook fully describing the Administration’s belief that faith-based groups have a Constitutionally-protected right to maintain their religious identity through hiring — even when Federal funds are involved.
5. Issued an EO implementing the Supreme Court’s Olmstead ruling, which requires moving disabled people from institutions to community-based facilities when possible.
6. Increased funding for low-interest loan programs to help people with disabilities purchase devices to assist them.
7. Revised the Department of Housing and Urban Development’s Section 8 rent subsidies to disabled people, permitting them to use up to a year’s worth of vouchers to finance down payments on homes. HUD has started pilot programs in 11 states.
8. Committed US funds to purchase medicine for millions of men, women and children now suffering with AIDS in Africa.
9. Heeding the words of our own Declaration of Independence, the president laid out the non-negotiable demands of human dignity for all people everywhere. On January 29, 2002, he said, “No nation owns these aspirations, and no nation is exempt from them. We have no intention of imposing our culture. But America will always stand firm for the non-negotiable demands of human dignity.” As stated by the President, they are a virtual manifesto of conservative principles:

* Equal Justice
* Freedom of Speech
* Limited Government Power
* Private Property Rights
* Religious Tolerance
* Respect for Women
* Rule of Law


51 posted on 01/20/2009 4:53:29 AM PST by A.Hun (Common sense is no longer common.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
"(for example, I see nothing wrong at all with socialized medicine if it is done properly — but I am entirely against the welfare state)"

But you contradict yourself.

52 posted on 01/20/2009 4:56:11 AM PST by TheOldLady
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To: Rammer

> I just wish we, as conservatives, would stop going along with the RINO’s when served up a Dole, or a Bush, or a McCain.

Putting a “RINO” in place seems to be a response to “capture the middle ground”, which when you think about it is a bloody good Strategy.

If you take your population and spread it out on a Normal Curve (which in the US you can surely do, in each state, because you have the population to make a really decent sample size) you would have not very many far-right, and on the other extreme, you would have not very many far-left.

The far-right extreme is more palatable than the far-left, for in the far-left exist communists, nazis and anarchists.

So the trick is to pick someone that the far right will barely tolerate (there aren’t many of them, after all), that the center-right will accept and that the center-left will enjoy. No need to worry at all about the far left. Hence, a RINO candidate has some significant appeal.

A true “conservative” candidate cannot do that. His line will stop at the center-right.


53 posted on 01/20/2009 4:57:32 AM PST by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: A.Hun

Well, when you put it that way...


54 posted on 01/20/2009 4:58:06 AM PST by TheOldLady
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To: AvOrdVet
“I would much rather be laying on a beach on the big island, but helping to save our country takes a little more priority.”
Probably the one of the most pompous statement ever posted on this site...ignoring quotes from the great “O”.
55 posted on 01/20/2009 5:01:29 AM PST by BilLies
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To: VU4G10

George Bush’s legacy is the destruction of Ronald Reagan’s legacy. The result is that Socialists have gained power in all branches of the government. Even Clinton wasn’t able to do that.


56 posted on 01/20/2009 5:03:51 AM PST by kittymyrib
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To: TheOldLady

> But you contradict yourself.

In an American sense, yes those two concepts contradict.

In New Zealand, they don’t. We have socialized medicine here: our taxes pay for it. Paying those taxes is compulsory. Using the socialized medicine is not.

We also have privatized medicine: you are free to purchase insurance and you can use the private system instead.

Many people (like my family) use both. Both are excellent and indeed both are excellent value.

The socialized system is tuned best for acute medicine: car crashes, serious sudden illness &tc. Very, very efficient and effective at delivering these.

Chronic complaints are best dealt with using the private system — so long as, of course, it isn’t a “prior condition”, for which you can still seek private treatment but it will cost your left nut to do so. So for the bad knee that needs replacing, private medicine is the fastest way to have it treated because, as you can guess, there are waiting lists for chronic complaints in the public system.

Medicine can be much like transport, conceptually. No conservative in his right mind would be opposed to public transport: it carries bulk people efficiently from A to B. And no conservative could be opposed to private transport: sometimes a train is not what you need: a car works better.

It doesn’t make you “not-conservative” to be in favor of both: the concepts do not have to contradict.


57 posted on 01/20/2009 5:05:29 AM PST by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: chainsaw
But Harry Truman is considered one of our best president.

Anybody who thinks Harry Truman was a great president should study his management of the Korean War.

After WWII Truman dismantled the most powerful military force on the planet. He brought a 1918 national guard artillery commander's view of national defense to the White House. He regarded professional military officers as "flim flam men" who were just out to con the American people into supporting a huge military bureaucracy. He didn't understand the scope of America's global responsibilities in the post war world, thus facilitating the expansion of Soviet power.

He relied on nuclear deterrence but ignored our stockpile of nuclear weapons. When he got around to asking he was shocked to find that we only had about 20 and that the triggers had decayed to the point where it would take weeks or months to produce a working weapon.

His state department WAS riddled with communists who prevented effective aid from reaching the Nationalist Chinese and helped the communists take over China.

When his Secretary of State, Dean Acheson blithely declared that Korea was "Not in our sphere of influence" Stalin reacted predictably, knowing that Truman had reduced the American military to a hollow shell. Acheson then reversed course after North Korea invaded the south and Truman sent a poorly trained, poorly led, out of shape army armed with infantry weapons from the last war to fight in Korea. The first US tanks that went into battle against NK T34s and no recoil oil for their main armament because of Truman's "cost savings". Many of the tanks that served in Korea were salvaged from WWII battle fields and refurbished by Mitsubishi. 36,576 Americans, and over 2 million Koreans died in a conflict the Harry Truman wouldn't even call a war.

Truth is, Harry Truman didn't get half the kicking around he deserved. While many of the things President Bush has done disgust me I don't thing he deserves anywhere near the odium that Truman and Nixon do and when the dust settles and passions have cooled may be remembered mostly for his stand against terrorism.

58 posted on 01/20/2009 5:14:33 AM PST by InABunkerUnderSF (Illegal Immigration is not about the immigration. Gun control is not about the guns.)
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To: VU4G10
Today, Bush’s legacy to his successor is two unresolved wars, a global image that is deeply tarnished, and the greatest economic crisis in modern times.

Bush will probably be blamed for the economic crisis, and that will be unjust. For reasons that have been discussed here many times, the Dems are about 75% or more responsible for the economic crisis, thanks to Carter, Clinton, Frank, Dodd, Cuomo and many others. - But Bush and McCain did such a poor job of explaining the crisis that not many Americans understand that. And the MSM sure had no intention of telling the real story.

Conservatives who backed Bush in two successive elections have little to show for their efforts. Bush, in fact, has decimated the Republican brand.

All too true. Both Bushes just trashed the party that others - not them - had built up into positions of greater power and influence. It'll take the work of many and a few years to recover, if it can be done. And "Stay out 'da Bushes".

59 posted on 01/20/2009 5:14:36 AM PST by Will88
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To: DieHard the Hunter

I’m surprised more people don’t “get” what you wrote.


60 posted on 01/20/2009 5:20:37 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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