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To: AFPhys

You said:
So merely shutting down one engine, when there were no other complications was an “emergency” as far as ATC and standard practice was concerned, but it was not an “EMERGENCY~!!!”

Please explain... I’m not sure what you’re referring to? Thanks.


569 posted on 01/17/2009 10:44:00 AM PST by freepersup (!)
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To: freepersup

I had four flights that I had one engine fail for one reason or another. None of them were “catastrophic” failures that destroyed the engine, resulted in a big fire, or other complications. Merely wound down and wouldn’t start, or were shut down for one reason or other.

There are “technical” emergencies, and honest emergencies. Technically, having to shut down an engine because the oil pressure was reading zero was an emergency: we were required(by regs, etc) to “declare an emergency” and thus obtain traffic priority, end a training mission, etc. Frankly, though, with three other good engines, and the quite likely cause being a bad gauge or sensor, no one gets their panties in a wad over that kind of thing. If you lose another engine, you may even try to start that engine up if you need it - you shut it down to save the bearings, and possible further damage, but in fact the oil pressure is quite likely to be just fine. The 135/707 will fly just fine on two engines at any but very heavy loads. So, simply losing an engine wasn’t, to me and many pilots, very troublesome. We would typically go back to our home base. I can tell you for sure, that during wartime operations, it would be a total non-event except right after takeoff.

IF, however, an engine wound down rapidly, and at the same time I start losing pressure in one of my hydraulic systems (which assist turning, climbing, and putting gear down, as well as several other important things), I would suspect that in addition to the engine catastrophically failing, that it caused a leak in one of the hydraulic systems. Though I could choose to “crossover” the other engines to handle that hydraulic system in a pinch, it is likely I’d be pumping fluid out into the air through a leak, and that could make my problem worse. I may have to be putting down the gear manually (winding them down with a crank) and I may be getting tired quickly since I may not have my “power steering” assisting me with the controls, so the pilots will tire more quickly, as well as being at least somewhat stressed by the situation. The autopilot may not be able to handle the plane for the mundane tasks I’d usually let it do to give me a break. Now we’re in a situation that I would be getting concerned, and if I lose certain other capability of the plane, it may jeopardize my ability to safely handle and land the plane. That would be a “Real Emergency” for me. I would declare the emergency, and let ATC (Air Traffic Control) handle things normally, and we would get to work to see just how bad things are, and probably land at the nearest reasonable field since there is no sense tempting Mr Murphy more than you have to in a situation like that.

Suppose now, after the above, I lost an engine on the other side of the airplane, and my other hydraulic system. Though I can still fly and land on the remaining two engines, we definitely have the handling problems and manual gear, and in addition we may be getting short of electrical power since we’ve lost two generators. Our landing speed and landing roll is going to be higher because I can’t extend flaps. We have many fewer options of emergency landing areas. Any kind of bad weather approach at all is going to be extremely difficult, and even a good weather approach is going to be hard. I’ve got my hands full now... and I want to tell ATC that the air is MINE, that they need to clear everyone else out of the way, that the field I’m going to land at is MINE, and that I don’t want them to say a single word to me unless they HAVE to or unless I ask. This is an EMERGENCY!!! - I’m not sure I’ll be able to get everything done safely, and if I have any other problem at all, it is likely we won’t have a happy conclusion.

For example - suppose one of those engine failures had somehow caused damage (electrical or mechanical) of my remaining electrical system, and after twenty minutes of hanging together, my electrical system fails... and with it most of my instruments and lights. This is NOT good - and a good outcome is going to require that you prove that you (and your copilot) are good and that you make your instructors proud of you, as well as being at near the top of your game that day. I won’t say that it will take a miracle to get out of this safely, but this is a true challenge. In fact the above scenario is something I had tossed at me in a simulator. If I recall correctly, I managed to live:-)


571 posted on 01/17/2009 11:56:12 AM PST by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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