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To: mlo
Whatever other forms there are than that one, whatever their precise titles, *that one* is a legal birth certificate.

If it's not been altered, and for most purposes, but not all purposes. Even the State of Hawaii won't accept if for at least some purposes. Similar forms in other states, but AFAIK not Hawaii, will not be accepted for a passport application, because they don't contain enough information to verify citizenship.

Similarly, even Hawaii's short form BC/Certification won't be accepted for a passport if the time between birth and registration is over 1 year.

The Hawaii Certification of Live Birth is probably not sufficient to prove Natural Born Citizenship, but that would depend on the criteria a Court finally applies to that test. If one ever does.

731 posted on 01/15/2009 4:58:02 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: El Gato
If it's not been altered, and for most purposes, but not all purposes. Even the State of Hawaii won't accept if for at least some purposes.

From what I have read, the only thing the COLB isn't good for are homestead applications. That's because in Hawaii you need to have Hwaiian ancestry, not just Hawaiian birth, to get a homestead, and the COLB doesn't have enough information to verify Hawaiian ancestry. Are there any other purposes for which Hawaii won't accept it? Please provide your source.

Similarly, even Hawaii's short form BC/Certification won't be accepted for a passport if the time between birth and registration is over 1 year.

Source please.

The Hawaii Certification of Live Birth is probably not sufficient to prove Natural Born Citizenship,

Why not? Do you have any sources to back up this claim?

738 posted on 01/15/2009 5:32:04 PM PST by curiosity
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To: El Gato
"If it's not been altered, and for most purposes, but not all purposes. Even the State of Hawaii won't accept if for at least some purposes. Similar forms in other states, but AFAIK not Hawaii, will not be accepted for a passport application, because they don't contain enough information to verify citizenship."

Whether it's been altered is another issue.

I've seen no legitimate documentation that the state of Hawaii does not accept these documents as proof of the facts contained on them. They don't contain every fact about a person, like ancestry beyond the parents, so the program for native Hawaiians that has been cited here repeatedly properly asks for additional documentation. That has nothing to do with not accepting or trusting the birth certificate.

If there are any cites for Hawaiian uses that reject the validity of their own birth certificates, I haven't seen them, and I doubt they exist.

However, note that logically speaking, showing an exception to the rule does not invalidate the rule. A hypothetical program that doesn't accept birth certificates does not mean that birth certificates are not legal proof.

Arguing for forgery is one thing. Arguing that birth certificates aren't really birth certificates comes close to being nonsensical.

739 posted on 01/15/2009 5:39:30 PM PST by mlo
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