Posted on 01/02/2009 12:07:35 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
You'll find that when virtually any historian says "Belgian Banker" for that particular period he or she knows that everybody else knows exactly who they're talking about. If you want to follow the physical flow of gold from the New World to the Old World it's also understood you'll be looking at places like Belgium. If you get real specialized and want to follow Philippines gold, it comes across the Pacific to Mexico and across Mexico to any one of several Spansh port cities, then on boats that sail past Florida and then on to Europe (usually Belgium). The silver from Potosi takes a different route.
Now, regarding converts, it had been the practice up to the time of the expulsions to just leave the "industrial base", other wise known as Jews, alone regarding their religious affiliations. They (meaning Spanish authorities whether Christian or Moslem) simply weren't in the business of proselytizing among the Jews ~ after all, most of them hated Jews, with or without their religion.
Interesting to read through the Spanish laws of the time ~ see what the position of Jews really was. Since they were not nobles they'd not be allowed to stay in cities after conversion, so what would they do for work since neither peasants nor nobles were artisans.
Now you may disagree with Spain having a real "industrial base" but they did relative to everyone around them ~ see Toledo ~ steel ~ that ought to be enough to get you up to date.
The 1500s saw the rise of France. Even UK wasn't all that easy a target to knock off. By the 1600s Sweden was the powerhouse, with France a close seond.
Spain didn't get to its hollowed out state in the early 1600s without some earlier "rot".
There is a creature called the camel spider, a giant, spider-like thing that leaves nasty bites, found in Iraq and around the Middle East. It was an annoyance to troops in Iraq, and some Saudis believed it was a blessing from Allah to hinder the American invaders. Strange, superstitious people indeed. Islam has hindered the mental development of the Arab world. The Western world at one point had superstitions (black cats are evil, etc) but we’ve for the most part grown out of that and advanced. The Arabs are still stuck in the 7th century. But even then, Islam had a hard time establishing itself. Muhammad’s band of Muslims was initially very small, and were kicked out of Mecca by the original inhabitants. It was only by force that Islam spread.
I read a MEMRI article awhile ago about a Kuwaiti guy who as one of the few intelligent Arabs out there. He slammed the Arab world’s obsession with conspiracy theories and told them to take responsiblity for their actions and quit blaming Israel and America. He died of brain cancer not too long ago, though.
However, let’s not forget that we’ve got our own share of nutjobs, some of which are well-educated, who also believe 9/11 was an inside job, and believe in stuff like global warming, UFOs, we never landed on the moon, Obama is the messiah, etc.
BTW, the Portuguese colony established by the Carvajal family in Labrador in 1531 was shut down about 1535 due to the Spanish takeover of Portugal.
In fact, if you read the Rig Veda you see more clear mention of the Panch jab (Panjab) and also long treatises on the Asuras Varuna and Agni and the daveas Indra, Yama, etc.
There are also little inclusions that come from other sources ~
Some are Jewish as well. The Mizrahi Jews are Arabs.
And remember, for the majority of their history, Arabs were not Muslims. Ishmael was born about 4000 years ago, whereas Islam is only 1400 years old. You know Petra in Jordan? The Nabataean Arabs built that 3000 years ago. Nowadays Muslim Arabs (and non-Arabs) build suicide vests. Islam has caused them to devolve into a primitive society that can’t maintain itself without leeching off of Western technology and enslaving others to do their work for them. And then they blame us when some of their own blows something up (9/11 for example).
Well said and all important points to remember.
All peoples need to free themselves from that awful cult called islam - many have been freed from Marxism so it can be done.
He also had several concubines, and a second wife (of nearly as illustrious a group of royal forebears as himself).
So, why bring him up? Well, he turns into an ancestor of Henry VIII, Philip of Spain, Isabella AND Ferdinand of Spain, most of the Hapsburgs who were capable of walking and chewing chiclis at the same time, and, lo and behold, he actually had Christopher Columbus as an employee at one time.
To say the French and Spanish crowns were closely related is to say the least. By the late 1500s Rene had become an ancestor to the next half dozen Swedish kings (all Protestant).
The "family", as its called, is still pretty tightly knitted (as families go), but back then it owned everything. Didn't matter who found the gold or brought it to Europe, it ended up in the same place every single time.
One of the places it tended to not go was Espagna. Instead, it went to the creditors.
Now you might not think Philippines gold was worth all that, but it was, and it traveled through the backdoor lest Spanish ships be boarded by such nice people as Dutch, French, Portuguese, Arab, Thai, Hindu, Malay and African pirates. There were lots of them around in those days.
Now, about banking, Venice started out on its own with the First Doge some time in the 7th century AD.
Those old boys invented double entry book-keeping. They also figured out how to monetize debt.
I think your reference to "banking" is to a more "modern banking" situation with internationally transferable "letters of credit". Spain had had access to that through its affiliation with the Islamic Caliphate starting in the 8th century AD right up to the 16th century. Of course even the Babylonians had banking and bankers thousands of years ago.
yup i understand....but is was sort of a failure all in all
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Your belief in “tidiness” aside, the Spanish shut down the Portuguese permanent colony in Labrador. Apparantly word to “leave stuff alone” never made it to the Amerias.
In fact, the closest ancient cognate languages to Sumerian are DRAVIDIAN, and the closest modern languages to Sumerian are Sa'ami (which have a large input of words from another non-Indo European language group in North Asia).
Their "beliefs" were a tad different than the standard Indo-European "god set", and were decidedly different than anything developed by the neighboring Semites.
What you have to do is go back another millenia and things will become much more familiar. Otherwise we'd have to believe that the Dravidians who penetrated Mesopotamia 7 to 10 thousand years ago managed to cast off all their own cultural baggage to embrace beliefs which would not be invented for another 4000 or so years.
There's been a lot of back and forth movement from Punjab to Helsinki over the ages. The Aryans who acquired domesticated horses used them to track back to where local stories indicated they kept the good stuff.
Recent piece on DNA studies of Spanish men. Seems lots and lots of Jewish (and earlier Phoenician) guys stayed behind, as did North Africans, et al.
Genealogists have been saying for years that 20% to 25% of Spanish ancestry (outside of Galicia and the Basque country) is of Jewish origin. These studies suggest 20% is right on target. Another 10% is attributed to North Africans (Berber) and Arab ancestry.
A quote worth remembering: "Studies such as the new one “tell the true history of everyone’s ancestors and not just the history book lessons of kings and queens,” says James Wilson, a population geneticist at the University of Edinburgh in Scotland who was not involved in the study."
No doubt it became popular at some time in Spain to believe that all the Jews and all the Moors "went back where they came from", but they didn't!
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