Posted on 01/01/2009 12:56:02 PM PST by marktwain
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Dec 30: Pounding on the wrong door a fatal mistake in Springs
Springs homeowners kill burglary suspect Dec 29:
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo.—Prosecutors are considering whether a Colorado law meant to protect homeowners against intruders applies in the case of a man killed outside a house he thought was his.
The parents of 22-year-old Sean Kennedy said detectives have told them their son, who had been drinking, was shot Sunday night after breaking a window to try to get in through the back door of a house a block away from where he lived.
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"It gets murky if the door is broken but not open," he said. Investigators are also likely to consider whether Kennedy was warned before being shot.
While the people at the house called police to report that they believed a burglary was occurring, police have not said how long after the call the shots were fired.
"The time frame will be key," Webster said. "It sounds like they were trying to do the right thing and get law enforcement there."
(Excerpt) Read more at denverpost.com ...
marktwain replies:
I do not see any question that the police were called before the shots were fired. From this story, which I believe is the one you are referring to as the last news story:
“While the people at the house called police to report that they believed a burglary was occurring, police have not said how long after the call the shots were fired.”
It certainly is possible that the reporter got it wrong. We see bad reporting all the time. But, I do not see any evidence that the call occured *after* the shooting.
So any time I hear glass break in my home at 2 AM I need to first ascertain whether the person is blind?
nope. first, i have keys to my house.
second, if for some reason i don’t have keys, my wife is probably home.
third, i have a phone, if for some reason my wife doesn’t hear me knocking, she’ll answer the phone.
fourth, if no one’s home, again, i have a cell phone, can call my wife and find out when she’ll be home, if it’s gong to be a while, i can call a friend, and get a ride somewhere to wait.
fifth, my parents have a spare key. worst case scenario, i can call them.
sixth, have you seen how much doors cost anymore? no way am i going to break my door becaue i was drunk and stupid and couldn’t get in.
seven, if all else fails, there’s a 24/7 coffee shop half a mile away. i have feet, i can walk there.
but no, there’s no way i’m going to break a window to get into my own house. i’m not going to run the chance that my wife is going to shoot me thinking i’m an invader.
No guns cannot be used to coerce compliance. That is illegal, a gun should not be drawn until it is needed. In my case the guy was about 2 second away from leaving me no choice.
If anyone is breaking into your home it is their problem to justify their behavior NOT the homeowners.
That’s just ignorant
Your kid breaks into my house, or tries to, he is going to get shot. You don’t want him to get shot? Teach him not to get so drunk that he tries to break into(actually he did break in by breaking the window)and no one will shoot him by mistake. If I shot him in like circumstances and you came after me then there would be a double funeral and I wouldn’t be one of the bodies!
ping!
“I think it is very relevant that he actually broke the window on the door, rather than just pounding on it.”
Changes everything. The minute it goes from pounding to breaking a shot through the door is justified.
Umm... No, it doesn't. It only gets murky to those who want to take guns out of the hands of citizens.
The key is always the frame of mind of the accused: What did he believe was happening when he acted? The answer in this case is clear. He thought his home was being invaded and that he was in danger.
What the mistaken invader thought was happening is entirely irrelevant, since isn't the one being charged with anything.
Kid came out before they began the eviction and hopped in his car. Next thing you know the Marshals shot up the car, shot up him, and we have one of the Marshals running after the kid in the car continuing to fire at him ~ he reloaded on the run at least 3 times in the video.
School was just then letting out all over DC and the streets were filled with children. The area where the Marshals were firing was completely surrounded by residential buildings (apartments, condos, etc.)
So far the kid hadn't done anything to justify his arrest to say nothing of his assassination.
With no warrant and no probable cause you had a US Marshall running wild in a residential district firing in all directions.
So,I'd like to point out to you why a "shot through the door" is probably not justified ~ it's because there are OTHER PEOPLE OUT THERE just minding their business. You fire almost any sort of weapon in a residential district your chance of hitting some innocent party is pretty darned good.
Plus, folks have all sorts of security videos around these days ~ that's what nailed the Marshals (who, last anyone heard, were on suspension). I would imagine there is some chance that some neighbor has a tape recording of the gunfire in the background and it will be possible to pin down exactly the time when they wildly fired through the door ~ or did they open the door and fire wildly, or did they maybe exit the front and creep around the side to ambush the kid, or.... there are just so many possibilities here ~ whatever, this is a residential district, people were home watching TV (Broncos game in fact), and just chillin' and this guy is out firing his gun at a drunk.
When you do that stuff follows ~ most of it not at all pleasant.
Whatever you think is right or wrong is irrelevant once you have a law in place and a dead body in the backyard.
Nobody here is going to give you a chance to get the drop on 'em so you be careful ye'hear!
Drinking beer?
Walking home?
You haven't been paying much attention to this case have you.
Guns are drawn or brandished many more times than they are fired. Only the Leftwingtards think that you fire a gun every time you pull one out.
Ages ago a buddy of mine had a hot date out to the drive-in theatre where I worked. About 3 AM he was down at the concession stand trying to get help ~ he'd managed to lose his keys.
Somebody took him home. His hot date had disappeared.
Which is one of the reasons why I think the police are going to be investigating this case a lot longer than they’d planned. They might actually have two different stories from the shooter.
What was the homeowner supposed to do?
Am I supposed to “screen’ someone who breaks a window at night in my home and assess whether the break-in is just a “mistake”?
” Hi there? are you in the wrong house? Oh....you’re not?...GUNSHOT!...AND I AM DEAD!
iF I PUT MYSELF IN THE SCENE....I am with the homeowner.
That doesn’t fly.
If I was trying to help someone in a burning home, or get help for myself..I would be poiunding on the door, doorbell and YELLING!
Let's get serious. Not everyone you meet is out to kill you.
RAther be convicted by 12 than carried by 6.
If I heard glass shattering and saw someone on the other side of the door, that is enough reason NOT to wait until he is inside. I would have no way to know if the “burgler” or “killer” is armed and by the time he got in, too late. I would shoot and take the consequences. i sure don’t want a “shoot out at the OK corral” in my kitchen.
the scene is very different than just hearing ‘something”.
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