Posted on 12/30/2008 4:47:26 PM PST by SeekAndFind
>>The way YOU are writing here, it SEEMS like you dont value the Word of God<<
Come on Mary. Don’t attribute motives to me. We are better than that.
To tell me that because I listen to a person reading the Word to me and following along, it is less valuable than sitting in my house reading The Word myself is silly, isn’t it?
And no, I don’t worship the written words. I love and respect Our Lord’s Words, Thoughts and Ideas. Because It’s printed on paper and bound a certain way doesn’t make It any less valuable than listening to someone read It out of their book printed a different way, does it?
>>Ive never been to a Bible study where women were catty<<
I have. Complaining, complaining, complaining.
However, I can’t say that the Bible Study at my parish was that way.
You wrote:
“Salvation IS a one-time gift of grace. Growing in Christ takes many years.”
If salvation is a one-time gift then there can be no growing in grace afterward. Once a person is saved, he is saved. How can a person become greater in grace than saved if it is merely a one-time gift?
“Without the HS, we really cant understand what the Bible or anything else pertaining to God is all about.”
That might explain erroneous Protestant interpretations. It certainly explains why Protestants often disagree with one another.
Dear Mom, sitting and reading the Word itself and having it speak to you personally is so important. I don’t know if you do that or not, but I highly recommend it. Happy New Year. Love, Maryxxx
“When did it go astray? Fourth century? Second? First? Earlier?”
It’s not a fixed date because 1. We don’t go astray instantly and 2. the records aren’t there.
We know that the Emperor Constantine, around the middle of the fourth century, called the first big church council. He and Sylvester were heavily involved in inviting the pagans with all their superstitions and paraphernalia into the church.
The Christians watched in horror and then dropped out. They had to take to the hills later because the Popes took up persecuting them where the Emperors left off.
You grow in Christ and his teachings. You and He together. Not His grace, which is always with you, but learning about His attributes, His wondrous love for you, deliverance from the sins that beset you, deliverance from attitudes, habits, freedom from those things that have caused you much pain. Those things don’t happen overnight, dear vlad.
Thanks!
You wrote:
“You grow in Christ and his teachings. You and He together. Not His grace, which is always with you, but learning about His attributes, His wondrous love for you, deliverance from the sins that beset you, deliverance from attitudes, habits, freedom from those things that have caused you much pain. Those things dont happen overnight, dear vlad.”
You’re not making sense. How can someone grow in Christ without more grace? Then again how can growth be possible if we are saved in one gift of grace with no further grace? You are denying God’s sovereignty to give grace how He wishes when He wishes and to whom He wishes.
>>having it speak to you personally is so important<<
Because you believe that.
I know, because Our Lord said it Himself, faith can move mountains.
So while you find comfort in looking at pages of a book, I know that Our Lord speaks to me when I meditate on His Passion during my Rosary.
I know, you know that He can do anything. There is no need to underestimate Him.
>>I hope at the end you find that to be true, but to have Jesus Himself you need to ask Him to come into your life.<<
I hope you find that to be true as well.
The difference is that your “Faith Community” believes that doing things my way means that I am not saved.
While my “Faith Community” knows that you and I are saved. Being good and faithful servants in our own way.
Well, at least your date is later than the LDS’s. I’d be interested in your knowledge of the Peasant Revolt, but another time..
Of course we disagree. It seems askew to us to think Jesus would abandon His Church - the church you agree was the Christian Church at least for a few centuries.
We believe the “the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Notwithstanding popes, bishops, wayward monks or parishioners going astray.
thanks for your reply...
I’m not Catholic-bashing. I’ve learned something important to eternal salvation and I want as many people, Catholics included, to benefit from it, because it’s the truth. I don’t know how to do it without causing people to go on the defensive for their religion.
God has preserved His church - it is The Body Of Christ. It’s not very visible, has no brick buildings nor creeds. It’s the heart in love with Him, coming boldly into the throneroom of Heaven in Jesus’ name, without any go-betweens.
I appreciate your courtesy.
We might agree that God’s preserved His Church and disagree with what that Church is. I think it’s the one established by Jesus and the one Peter and Paul served in and established in various locations including Rome, where the apostles and their successors served.
Paul wrote letters to this Church and was concerned about their ‘creed’ (a set of beliefs).
This Church has continued, unbroken in its history, since that time.
Some think it went astray, and postulate a different Church, but I think that would mean the apostles were wrong in what they established and how the served as Church leaders in a hierarchical structure.
I believe you have to either distort history or contradict Jesus’ promise to see a different Church than this as the one He established.
thanks for your reply.
Ok. According to the poll what are the different ways that Catholics practice their faith?
This was in reply to your "the Rasmussen survey is a statistical sampling of Catholics in America"
I don't see that in it's methodology. It doesn't claim that in the article, and there are no breakdowns available. It could have 3 Catholics and the 925 Protestants and still be what it claims to be: "Survey of 928 Adults Who Regularly Attend Church"
Maybe you don’t want to see it. It’s easy if you look.
Take this phrase...
>>A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of regular churchgoers found that 25% of Evangelical Christians read the Bible on a daily basis along with 20% of other Protestants. Just seven percent (7%) of Catholics do the same. At the other extreme, 44% of Catholics rarely or never read the Bible along with only seven percent (7%) of Evangelical Christians and 13% of other Protestants.<<
“Just” 7% of Catholics and “At the other extreme” are both framed in the negative. Maybe you’re immune because the MSM does it all the time.
They are showing the “different ways” yet don’t ask anything about Catholic practices. Like daily church attendance (mass for us) for instance or praying reflecting on scripture instead of “reading the Bible”. That is a positive for both Catholic practice and Protestant.
No, I’m not denying anything. God does what He wants to do. He’s already given His grace. He gives it every day through the Holy Spirit.
You wrote:
“No, Im not denying anything. God does what He wants to do. Hes already given His grace. He gives it every day through the Holy Spirit.”
Are you saying that you STILL receive grace from God now? If so, why? Aren’t you saved? Gee, once you’re saved, what do you need more grace for?
You have to make up your mind. Do people grow in holiness with grace over time, or are they “saved” in a one time event or is there a another option? Which is it?
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