Posted on 12/19/2008 3:08:08 PM PST by marktwain
There has been a great deal of discussion about what to carry for an event like Mumbai. Gents, let's think about this. If you happen to be caught up in this at its conclusion, facing a dozen riflemen working together as a unit, and you with your Kel-Tec, what do you think your realistic chances of success are? Being real is not being defeatist, but come on.
Now, at the outset of the event, where there may be only one or two adversaries, it gets a little better in terms of odds. But only a little. You have one advantage and that is the advantage of surprise and one target. They, on the other hand have many avenues of danger to cover, only one which is yours. This will be a rapidly moving fluid situation.
One man was saying that using a cell phone to photograph the bad guys would be good. Pictures of the bad guys on your cell phone? Come on....seriously? If you have the ability to take their picture, you also have the ability to take their life, or GTFOT (get the f*** out of there) so get out of the evidence collecting mindset.
Number two, some guys were discussing carrying a special bag with them with all manner of weapons and gear to facilitate such a fight. Keeping a Bug Out Bag in the office or in the car is a wise move, but I doubt many of us are going to walk around fully kitted out all the time, so I think this will be limited to what you have on your person. Know what....you'll carry your tango bag everywhere until you get sick of it and leave it in the car one day and then, that will be the day and you will fight with what you have on your person anyway.
Those of you with little bitty guns (snubbies and Glock 27s and such), I suggest you rethink your weapon choices. I can run a mini-Glock pretty good, but not as good as a full sized gun. What do I carry? A Glock 22 when at home and a Glock 17 when away. 15 rounds or 17 rounds respectively.
Yes, the bigger gun is harder to hide. Yes, I have to choose my clothing more carefully. Yes, its heavier. All of those things they tell you are true. But when you NEED THE MOTHER F'ING GUN NOW, those uber-comfortable pocket chain guns so popular with the CCW crowd will never allow you to fight as well as a full-sized gun.
Calibers - Please! I will take a 40 or a 9mm over a 45 any day of the week for the simple fact of the matter that I can fight much longer with one than I can with a seven or eight shot weapon. It may have been a caliber edge in 1976 when the only thing going was marginal hollow point ammo, but not today bwana. Ask any of those metro-sexual gun instructors if they want to get shot in the face with my "45 set on stun". Magazine capacity is not an asset, it is a blessing.
Engagement Dynamics - Short range, run and gun, point shooting is an essential skill and must be prioritized for the urban ambush gunfight. However, for anti-terrorist activity, if you find yourself just outside or arm's length with a doped up, combat-trained AK-armed tango, you have already stepped into it. You can still fight, but wouldn't it be far better to be able to ice these monkeys from 25, 50 or even 100 yards?
Read the reports boys. There are folks who had an eye on the action from a distance. "If only I had a gun" was one of the Brit reporters said. The ability to hit out at these distances is not hard at all. But it must be learned and trained. And, your gear must support your ability to do it.
Those uber-court-proof heavy triggers promoted as essential by the lawyer-instructors are trash. Get rid of them. You don't need a hair trigger on your pistol, but you do need a manageable trigger. My Glocks for example all use the standard 5# connector set up and give me a crisp release that is conducive to accuracy. You don't need the 3# target connector, but good heavens don't add one of the abominable New York triggers.
Those big fat close range sights? If you can hit at 100 yards with them, drive on. I cannot, so I use sharply defined black iron sights like the Heines, and the Trijicons. Those of you with eye issues that can't use the irons well enough, invest in one of the Docter red dot sights. Yep....a red dot sight on your pistol. It is small enough to carry around and bright enough that even Mr. Magoo can hit at 100 meters with it.
Another thing - Usually after one of those events I will hear "By golly if I had been there I would have pulled out my custom model 29 and..." That is usually spoken by a guy who hasn't done any physical training since high school, would have a heart attack if he had to run ten feet to cover, and is so out of condition he could not fight his way out of a Sierra Club Tea Party In San Francisco. I'm not trying to offend anyone here but its not just about marksmanship and your ammo choices. If you are already a good shot, you need to get away from the range and into the gym or the street and train your out of shape shooter's body so you will be able to fight not just shoot.
And finally, without which all else is wasted, develop the will to kill. It is hard for some to sneak up on a man and shoot him in the back of the head unannounced, regardless of what the man has done, or is about to do. You need to get over that if you want to be a player at this level. it is not about capturing, or about bringing to justice, or about "stopping the action". it is about getting the drop on a terrorist from a distance, unseen and undetected, putting your sights on his ear, controlling your heartbeat, and then pressing that trigger without a moment's hesitation.
Hunting is excellent preparation for the necessary willingness to kill, according to the late, great shooter, Jim Cirillo.
Bump
Personally, I carry my 9mm Glock. If I can get to my truck I can use my 742 Remington chambered in 30.06 and a 3x9 scope zeroed in at 150 yards.
100 yards, hmm... farthest I’ve ever shot my S&W 5906 is 67 feet... still hit COM at that point though...
Would one be better off with a 5-shot .38 or a 9-shot .22?
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Send treats to the troops...
Great because you did it!
www.AnySoldier.com
.22 Ruger Mark II at 300 yards.
.45 Colt Combat Commander at 225 yards.
A whole bunch of handguns in various calibers at 65-75 yards at claybirds sitting on a dirt bank.
With a 6 1/2” .357, I could, with intense concentration and a bench rest, get it down to 10”.
Pistol shooting at long range is fun and educational, but it sure makes you appreciate a rifle!
Learning some of the better ways to shoot prone(rollover prone) and from a rest are worth while for long range shooting.
I would carry the 5 shot .38, myself.
I heartily agree with the call to be prepared. I especially appreciate the suggestion that we be physically prepared as well as mentally prepared. I disagree, however with the contention that a small Glock is too little to be of use. I carry a model 26, 15 round magazine from a model 19 and an extra 10 rounder. After practicing for the past year I can hit damn near anything I point at even while moving. Combined with a nice hollow point round it will certainly make a dent where and when needed. Don’t lump the model 26/27 in with the Keltec type BB guns.
it would take a .22 and a heck of a lot of practice to hit a human at 100. I would do ok at 25 yards maybe 50 if the terrorist stands still.
Not saying it cannot be done, and in a pinch it works, but for me I wear corrective lenses and find it not too easy to do with a pistol... Now a nice rifle, I agree, not so hard to do..
a .22 is not a good manstopper at all id stick to 9mm and .38 special or .32 h&r magnum.
Another important consideration: How to distinguish yourself from the bad guys when the cops finally show up?
Might be important.
That’s easy. Don’t look like a young, middle eastern male.
Go Cougs.
Sometimes I take my 357 Colt to the 50 yard part of the range, but I wouldn’t want to bet my life or liberty on being able to do anything other than scare a person at that distance:-)
That takes a lot of faith in the officer’s shoot/don’t shoot split-second decision-making skills. I’m not sure I’ve got that level of faith.
Roger that. :-)
I seem to recall from the Carlos Hathcock biography that he, and other Marine Snipers could hit a small at 100 yards consistently.
Oops,
“I seem to recall from the Carlos Hathcock biography that he, and other Marine Snipers could hit a small TARGET at 100 yards consistently”
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