Posted on 12/12/2008 6:09:21 AM PST by NYer
THE Vatican today said life was sacred at every stage of its existence and condemned artificial fertilisation, embryonic stem-cell research, human cloning and drugs which block pregnancy from taking hold.
A long-awaited document on bioethics by the Vatican's doctrinal body also said the so-called "morning after pill" and the drug RU-486, which blocks the action of hormones needed to keep a fertilised egg implanted in the uterus, fall "within the sin of abortion" and are gravely immoral.
"Dignitas Personae" (dignity of a person), an Instruction of Certain Bioethical Questions," is an attempt to bring the Church up to date with recent advances in science and medicine.
It said human life deserved respect "from the very first stages of its existence (and) can never be reduced merely to a group of cells."
"The human embryo has, therefore, from the very beginning, the dignity proper to a person," the docment by the Congregations of the Doctrine of the Faith said.
It said most forms of artifical fertilisation "are to be excluded" because "they substitute for the conjugal act ... which alone is truly worthy of responsible procreation".
It condemned in-vitro fertilisation, saying the techniques "proceed as if the human embryo were simply a mass of cells to be used, selected and discarded."
The highly technical document said only adult stem cell research was moral because embryonic stem cell research involved the destruction of embryos.
In the document, the Vatican also defended its right to intervene on such matters.
(Excerpt) Read more at theaustralian.news.com.au ...
At what price? This may be a normal and natural desire, but it still requires God's cooperation. To do otherwise is manipulative and destructive of life.
"The human embryo has, therefore, from the very beginning, the dignity proper to a person," the docment by the Congregations of the Doctrine of the Faith said.
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These are very powerful and positive assertions. We are indeed blessed with our dear Pope Benedict, and his leadership during these difficult times.
Why do you want to put Man as an entity separate from Nature? We too, are a part of the system, if you haven't realized it yet.
"Just because we CAN does not mean we SHOULD. a persons genetics is not what makes them a person.
Adoption of a child as well as giving birth to a child both make that child YOURS.
A DNA test would disagree, sadly.
If a person cannot reproduce naturally, perhaps there is a reason bigger than just their plumbing that they should NOT reproduce, but because we are NOT God, we don’t know what it is."
Mighty selfish of you to deny others their chance at preserving their genetic viability.
We don't know if God/s exist/s.
God is just a concept. To convince someone of God’s existence, you’d also have to explain that talking snake that deceived Eve, to put it simply.
because we are on different pages here, you agnostic, me Catholic, we are not going to agree. You put your faith in the creation, I the creator. We will have to agree to disagree. In an non God based arguement, you are correct in worrying about your lineage being preserved as there is no afterlife except your genes. My faith tells me this life is not the end, but the beginning and therefore leaving my genetics behind matter not, for my true family is the Church and her members, and I have tons of “brothers and sisters” in Christ who are my lineage. I part ways with your arguement, and thank you for a valiant attempt :)
Every life-form alive today has had its ancestors pay whatever price it took, for their genetics to be relevent this minute of this hour. To not pay that price at the cost of extinction as a genetic entity is a price that most life-forms are not tuned to pay, since to do otherwise is to willingly be put out of the scope of natural selection, into irrelevance as a living genetic entity.
No, really? I would never have expected the Vatican to say the same things they’ve been saying every time they ever say anything yadda yadda yadda. I thought they’d totally change their teaching on everything, just to see if we’re paying attention.
>>Mighty selfish of you to deny others their chance at preserving their genetic viability.<<
By killing how many of that person’s children to do it?
I agree to disagree, too.
Sadly, both of us can’t be right, regarding the argument.
Yes, and for those ancestors who could not reproduce due to infertility? What became of them? Natural selection works both ways, and, as you posted earlier, we are "part of Nature's system" - isn't IVF a work-around of what nature proposes?
That depends on how much you value having your genetic lineage on this planet, after you.
>>That depends on how much you value having your genetic lineage on this planet, after you. <<
So, what you’re saying is that “you” have the right to kill your offspring, to preserve one of them? Is that right?
I’m saddened to see this thread deteriorate ,,, The Church/Pope is simply laying out it’s position in preparation to something much bigger ... When Obama pushes through the “Freedom of Choice Act” and makes it mandatory that all surgeries and surgeons/doctors perform abortions on demand with not a hint of medical necessity and as part of this act eliminates all conscience clauses along with parental notification laws and such he will be forcing the Catholic Church to close the approximately 500 hospitals they operate (or maybe transform them into long term care facilities that do not perform any surgeries)... with those closures Obama will have the emergency he needs to launch his takeover of the entire health care system...
Dollar Worthless
Financials , Gov’t admin’d and controlled as in a Fascist state
Auto Industry , Gov’t admin’d and controlled as in a Fascist state
Health Care , Full Gov’t control over policies and payments, Fascism
2nd Ammendment , IGNORED , Obama will implement his proposed national police force under his control
100 & 200 hour “volunteer” requirements for HS and college students to graduate (hours to be increased ASAP after implementation to approximate a part time job and will be moved down to get the younger more impressionable children),, how much you wanna bet it will be run through the “Camp Obama”/Hitler Youth program he proposed.. be prepared to have your children acting as spies for the state in your own home....
Yes this implies that Obama will attempt a coup and will become el Hefe for life or that he will pass the baton to a fellow traveler... this is entirely possible since the RATS/Commies own the Congress , the White House , The Press and the Supreme court so far is refusing to act in it’s appointed role.
First of all, they wouldn't really be ancestors of anyone today, by direct descent. Secondly, their genetics were sadly relegated to the dustbins of the natural system, as a result of their failure to reproduce.
Natural selection works both ways, and, as you posted earlier, we are "part of Nature's system" - isn't IVF a work-around of what nature proposes?
Why do you put Man outside the natural system? Surely he's a part of it, and as a consequence, so are his actions, part of the natural system, no matter what silly linguistic definitions or make-believe theology might have to say.
Nobody is advocating the killing of any offspring. The unused embryos can be stored perpetually, if one desires. The original argument is regarding IVF and the idea of genetic relevance that it preserves.
>>Why do you put Man outside the natural system?<<
Because we are.
We value a human life. YOU may not, but anyone with a lick of sense does.
When things get tough, animals kill other animals of their species. Dogs eat puppies, hamsters eat other hamsters, etc.
Glad you consider yourself with the hamsters. I’m well above that, thanks.
Some medication, and substances ingested by the mother, can do the same. Is that God's will, too? Or are you just calling random events, 'Lord's will'?
>>Nobody is advocating the killing of any offspring. The unused embryos can be stored perpetually, if one desires.<<
LOLOLOL!!!!
Or not.
What "make-believe" theology have I used in this thread? And I'm using "silly lingustic definitions"? If every action of man is "natural" - your definition - then everything from the enrichment of Uranium to the Mars rover is natural. Further, murder is an action of man, and therefore natural under your definition - does that mean it should be permissible?
How do you derive a moral code by which to live? I will try and conform my arguments to that rationale, if possible.
The human experience, sadly, is not outside the set of behavior patterns you just described. Just the other year, this German man ate a willing victim.
All you need to do is venture into the wilderness alone for a week, to teach yourself how much you are part of the natural system, and impacted by its properties.
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